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Wolfridgerider
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm sure someone on here has added a oil cooler to their S3. (or tuber)

Please post a pic or two.

It was HOT at the WV Buell Rally this past weekend.
The S3 about made BBQ out of my right leg and went into run/skip/spark mode.
We stopped for some lunch at "Hillbilly Hot Dog" for lunch.
Once it cooled off it ran fine but it was still cooking me.

So please post some pics of your add on oil cooler... or anything else you have come up with to keep you old school Buell running cool.

THANKS

Mark
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Ebutch
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Get a fan try placing your leg father away.Make a reflective shield.Your oil really not to blame.Pipe is!!!!!

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Wolfridgerider
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



Ya think the rear pipe is gets hot... never thought of that...

the bigger problem is the run/skip spark that made it run like CRAP... and made me wish I was riding my DR
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Ebutch
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I always had race package never really had heat problem yours is bone stock.S3s ran lousy in factory stock tune.It will be a much better state of tune and engine heat if you use Race package.
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Littlebuggles
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 11:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a new X1 fan sitting in a box in my garage Wolf. Got it by mistake from ebay a few years ago when I needed to chng out the fan on my STT.

Let me know if you can use it.
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Littlebuggles
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2016 - 11:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fuel map too lean?
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S1owner
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 07:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This might show you what you need

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/339853.html?1204145170
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Pontlee77
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 08:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jaggs is the oil cooler made for tubers. PM and i can send you a couple of pics.
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Wolfridgerider
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2016 - 07:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

PM sent

I went to Jaggs Website.
They are showing the 1390 low mount as the one to use.
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Norton952
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2016 - 02:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Here is a pix of one of the Oil coolers I have I plan on fitting. I got a good deal on it from a guy on another forum.
It fits the style of the Tubers and what I ESPECIALLY like is it has a thermostatically controlled bypass. It only routes oil thru the cooler when you need it.
JAGGS makes some nice stuff and have a good reputation. Depends on many factors but there are OTHER options. Easy install and easy project than buy a preconfigured kit.

However IMHO many oil cooler kits retail prices are TOO EXPENSIVE. I dont think it should be that high or that complicated but maybe thats just me.

However there is many ways to skin a cat. You might consider adapting a XB one since many are parted out and was engineered for a similar motor. Perhaps can be a cheaper alternative. But cast a wide net. There are industrial applications, Auto apps, Farm and Ag apps. You might find something that does a better job and/or a fraction of the price. All coolers are NOT the same! Some dissipate heat better than others some flow better or can restrict flow in bad ways. Dont overlook the fittings and hose routing and types. Try to avoid ANY 90 deg fittings they impede flow and should be avoided. The less bends and turns the better. In aviation
Hydraulics class we had to do extensive testing and calculating for Flow, pressure and volume and that is a topic in itself but the short course is PRESSURE=Bad, FLOW & VOLUME=GOOD.

Again IMHO the most critical thing anyone looking at oil coolers should look at is fitting a Thermostat. The JAGGS company has offered them as a easy fit between the oil filter and Engine and thats a good idea in my book. But they also have in the past a small manual distribution block with a knob on it you turn either way. (On-Off)

On another MC forum there is a raging debate going on now about oil coolers. (Nortons and Triumphs) In extensive testing Most of these bikes do NOT need an oil cooler and often they fail to get hot enough for the oil. If oil does not reach optimum operating temps it does NOT flow properly and fails to dissipate moisture. It turns out many people are installing coolers that should NOT. On those bikes except certain exceptions the cyl head temps are excessive (Especially around the Export valve guides and springs) but the rest of the engine is operating below optimum temps.
Ironic as I used Buells as an example of directing cooling air to the heads and thermostatically controlled fans.
cooler2
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Norton952
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2016 - 03:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

May I suggest some other ideas you might consider? Looking at your profile It appears you have some racing experience so I am sure you probably are aware of some of these issues but this is a very relevant topic for me as I am doing some research and exploring options for a number of projects I have.
------------------------
First of all no mention what TYPE exhaust you have fitted as no mention of a tuber in your profile. But the stock Buell exhausts for all models are pretty good out of the box and header tubes test well. The biggest improvements is usually the exhaust cans.
But I have a lot of experience in building and running different exhausts and perhaps the following might be helpful to some on here. A) NEVER NEVER NEVER use exhaust wrap, its garbage. sorry that will offend some but its proven in testing. Many years back it was the hot new thing in the 1990s when it first started being marketed for auto apps. Major header manufacturers tested it and found it DESTROYS your exhaust. Especially in radiuses. The reasons are simple. It TRAPS the heat. This destroys the metal and doesnt matter if Aerospace titanium, Inconel Stainless or mild steel DOM. All metals have a fatigue profile and cooking the crap out it accelerates the process. For what ever reason bike guys dont seem to get the message. Perhaps because in the wind and exposed they get a little longer life out of a wrapped pipe but there is not an exhaust manufacturer out there who will honor a warrantie or recommend it. B) You can DRAMATICALLY extend the life of a exhaust system and REDUCE heat as well as IMPROVE performance by using a quality Ceramic exhaust coating. Why? Simple,. Less heat is radiated INTO the metal and surrounding engine components and instead it passes OUT the pipe. By doing so it increases exhaust gas scavenging improves flow velocity, reduces reversion and helps to control cyl head temps. On vintage bike restorations we always break in a rebuilt engine with old pipes and do the initial tuning with those on. After the motor has a number of heat cycles and is dialed in we then fit the new exhaust. For Classic bikes I usually fit restoration grade chrome pipes but we first CERAMIC COAT the ID of the new pipes. It is critical to prevent air leaks but if you avoid them then the Chrome pipes simply do NOT blue. At the most they get a little straw yellow around the cyl head joint. I have had bikes people criticized as a nice bike but clearly a trailer queen as its obvious it doesnt get ridden. BS, They get ridden! people dont realize the secret. On a Buell especially the XBs its critical to cool that rear cyl and best thing you can do is ceramic coat the pipes. We do it to all kinds of car exhausts as well. It really improves things.
It works even BETTER when you coat the ID and the OD.

------------------------------------
Thermal barrier and heat dispersant coatings. I have extensively researched this and might be overkill for some but they work and they really help. Its up to you to decide what and where to use them. In top shelf engine builds I use a variety of coatings. Ceramic barrier on tops of pistons and in some cases valve faces, combustion chambers and the exhaust ports. I use a oil shedding coating on the bottom of pistons. (Avoid coking, increase cooling) I Use Moly lubricant coatings on wear surfaces such as piston skirts and Nitrided crank journals, cam faces and other high wear parts. I use barrier coatings on parts i Dont want to get over temp and I use dispersant coatings on parts i want to keep cool. Cylinders heads and even engine cases. In addition it looks nice as well. (Semi gloss black and very durable) In testing we found huge decreases in critical temps on Transmission pans in a motor home. (20 to 40 deg F drop which is huge!) On brake components in the same motorhome with stress testing on steep hills it was a night and day difference and Brakes actually work and dont fade. (Some should tell Roland Sands about functional brakes)
In NASCAR testing Moly Lubricant and other coatings are now the standard on valve springs and extends life by up to 3x with the only change is the coatings.
I had a friend (RIP) who was a big time gun and racing guy who used to own a well known local machine shop. He was a big enthusiast for these coatings and taught me a lot. He did his own coatings but if in doubt have it done by a pro. Dan would say you can take any of his guns. Bury them in the sand or drop into the ocean and leave them there for years. Bring them back out and will be fully functional. He was a well established racer and showed me on his many racers that on the main stretch at PIR (9/10ths of a mile long) that His temp gauge would bounce between 190 and 210 as his thermostat was opening and closing his engine temps were so stable and this is at full throttle for extended periods. Other racers struggle to keep from over temp. He coated every part in his race motors trans and rear dif. He told me "On the stuff you are building for people they will likely die before it wears out, but on my race stuff i get 2-3 seasons before I recoat. I know when my coatings are going away when I see the temp gauges (Multiple) start going out of normal" While there are MANY shops and products out there these guys are local to me, and many local racers use them and their products are well tested by the owners with multiple Land Speed records.
See: http://finishlinecoatings.com/
------------------------------------
Cooling fans, ducting and Engine controls.

I am researching these topics and spend a lot of time reviewing other peoples testing. I know a couple guys who have compiled a LOT of research on vintage bikes testing and tuning and use a array of thermocouples and probes checking temps on the outside as well as internal temp issues. Frank has written some really good material on carb and ignition tuning using these methods and his 1972 Norton 750 has over 350,000 miles and he used to own the local dealership. Same thing on his BSA B50 500 cc single. (Blast relevance) Theres another guy doing extensive dyno testing as well as cross country slogs testing and developing parts and methods for vintage bikes named Jim Comstock. Jim did extensive testing using a Spintron on a special land speed record Norton I was involved with, Vintage pushrod twin and specially built to run up to 10,000 RPM. He then dialed it in on the dyno and will be running on the salt later this month. Others too but the point is you might try setting up some temp probes and find out where and when you are getting high temps and what the issues are. Ill be doing the same over the next year on several projects as I dont see much of this in the Buell community. While the XBs use the ECM/ECU to control fan operation there is no reason someone couldnt fit a thermostatically controlled fan with relays as well as some creative ducting. Im looking at some options for my tubers that fit the style but functional as well as a variety of fans. While Buells use on type with current tech theres a LOT of industrial and Auto applications with high flow rates and low power consumption not to mention duty cycles. I suspect, but would welcome any feedback if you guys know any testing that Buell air cooled motors have the same issues other air cooled bike engines have in that certain parts run way too hot and other parts dont run hot enough.
What I DO know is that my daily rider Sportster does just fine in almost any temp except bumper to bumper city traffic on warm days. (1980s evo sporty with 1200 kit, cams, S&S carb, SE ign pack, and Supertrapp 2>1 exh) And while I suspect Oil temp is an issue I need to do some actual testing to find out.
Hope this is helpful.
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Brother_in_buells
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2016 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

See S1owners post!
a oil cooler from the xb buells can do the work to!
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Purpony
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2016 - 03:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i run an XB cooler on my bike-
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Dave
Posted on Friday, August 19, 2016 - 11:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have one one a X1 I just picked up. Photos tomorrow.

DAve
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Wolfridgerider
Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2016 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

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Dave
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


oilcoolX1


oilcoolX1


oilcoolX1


DAve
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Wolfridgerider
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 08:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dave, Is that the Jagg cooler?
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Dave
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2016 - 09:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Unknown-it was on the X1 when I got it. I'll look closer tomorrow for ID.

DAve
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Tombo
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 - 11:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I like the Spurgin oil coolers, they work and look great. I have one on my S3 mounted to the frame tube and decided to put one on my Fat Bob, but since I like the side mounting I had to make my own bracket for the Fat Bob. The side mounting does not restrict flow to the front of the cylinders and still gets enough flow itself.
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