| Author | Message | ||
     Mike_hype |
Hello all, long time lurker here. I have come to the end of my rope with my Buell finally and I am on the verge of selling. When I bought my bike I knew nothing about it and learned quickly that I had purchased a machine with some issues. After the bike shook it's muffler right off it's mount and ripped the front engine iso out I knew it might be running a little rough. It also took about 10 minutes to finally warm up. Reading through here I found the info I needed to finally track down, what I think, was the major issue which was the engine temp sensor. The bike thought it was running at 25 degrees. Always. Thank you to whomever posted ECM Spy and how to use it. American Sport Bike got me straightened out with everything I needed and it was finally running right, but I think it was too late and there was further damage done. Now the bike makes this whooshing or chugging sound from the primary area. I've gotten in there and adjusted the clutch plate and primary chain to no avail. The bike runs and shifts as it should, save for the occasional pop and misfire (more on this in a bit). The previous owner installed a race ECM, and I think it's got the wrong map in addition to the rest of whatever is wrong with it. So, yesterday, after I got everything back together from the clutch and primary adjustment, I went on a ride. Maybe 20-30 miles. I got back tot he garage and the bike had puked oil out of the filler area. The tail and whole rear section of the bike was covered. I drained what was left, turned the engine a few times to make sure I got it all, and got about 3/4 of a quart out. So any ideas on what my next steps should be? Part it out? Sorry for the long post, I've been chasing things with this bike for 5 years. I do love this bike but I cannot sink any more money into it.... Thanks for reading! | ||
| Dannybuell |
all of those items are regular maintenance issues. sounds like the previous owner did nothing. puking oil? the sportster is a dry sump design. oil levels are measured with the engine warm. This should be measured before gravity lets the oil drain into the sump which will give you a false reading and puking. I have done this a few times, everyone has. considering the above mentioned issues, I would replace the intake seals as well, another regular maintenance item. That should take care of the popping. Exhaust gaskets after that if popping continues. If you have that OEM shock, it is a POS. Don't forget the rear isolators! | ||
| Hootowl |
There's a transmission vent above the oil tank. Usually when you see oil in that area, it's coming from that vent. It sounds like you've got a bad crank seal, and engine oil is coming through under pressure and overfilling your primary. Sounds horrible, but it's not a hard job. Part is cheap, and of an improved design. It does involve removing the primary chain and the stator, but if you've been in your primary before, you shouldn't have any trouble. This is actually a very common failure on this year range of sportster engine. I've had to do it to mine. The new seal design fixes it. Jeff | ||
| Mike_hype |
Hoot - Would that explain the strange whooshing sounds that are coming from that area as well? | ||
| Hootowl |
Whooshing? From around the oil tank? It is a dry sump system, and the scavenge side pumps more volume than the supply side. This results in air being mixed with the oil when it is pumped back to the tank. Does the whooshing sound get louder if you remove the oil dipstick? | ||
| Mike_hype |
Don't know, but I'll check in a few. | ||
| Mike_hype |
Is it safe to run it with the plug out? | ||
| Harleyelf |
Whooshing sounds from the front of the primary may be the sound of the crank main seal failing. When it goes, engine oil pushes itself into the primary case, causing the overflow onto the rear fender. The design was improved about the time your bike was built. It's a pain to get the old one out but the new one is easy to install, just be sure not to set it too deep or it will rub on the crankshaft. It's under the front primary sprocket and the alternator rotor. Do not run with the chain dry, and if it is getting engine oil in the primary, you will be oiling your rear wheel if you run without the plug. If you run with the dipstick plug out, you will be oiling the area under your seat. (Message edited by harleyelf on June 08, 2015) | ||
| Mike_hype |
Yeah, that's what I figured. As soon as I imagined pulling out the plug while running I saw an image of Old Faithful coming from the seat area.... Thank you all for your input. | ||
| Mike_hype |
Also, as a point of reference, this bike only has 16,500 miles on it. About 5000 are mine. I have a 2012 Thruxton that I bought new and I have over 10,000 on it. | ||
| Jolly |
I had a strange "whooshing" sound from a 2002 S3T right after I bought. Finally tacked that noise down to a Breather plug bolt had fallen out and was laying in the air box.... PO had already upgraded to XB style rocker boxes and a catch can so the breather bolt was now a solid bolt for a plug. since the plug had come out it was making a "whooshing" noise from the breather hole. hylomar on the bolt, re-install...noise went a way.. It did sound like the "whooshing" noise was coming from lower and somewhere else is the only reason I mention it... other issues: If its puking oil out your oil filler cap on top of the oil "bag" then my thought would be it could have been over serviced if it was checked and serviced with the bike cold. If its puking oil out the primary vent then it could have oil bleeding through your main seal, over filling your primary, then puking it out, or that too could have been over serviced. You could start with a very thorough wash so that its easier to find where its puking from, then do a complete fluid change noting EXACTLY how much fluid and where it settles on the clutch and the oil bag dipstick for reference, then ride the bike for a bit, if the oil goes up in the primary then its a sure bet your main seal is leaking through... do you have a different ECM you can plug in? If you need to borrow one I think I still have a stock ECM you could borrow to do a comparison... if you need to replace the main seal, do you have the tools? its not complicated, its just darn tricky or "cumbersome"..... | ||
| Mike_hype |
Jolly; As DannyBuell mentioned, I sure did overservice the oil on my first oil change. Thought I was an idiot until I read through here and found I was not alone. Hi, I'm Mike, and I'm a overservicer.... So this time I'm quite certain that I didn't have too much oil. You make an interesting point about the breather and the oil catch can. My PO also had dine a similar setup, and now that I'm thinking about it he said something about disconnecting it. I'm going to go over that system and see what's going in there. I don't have the stock ECM, and buying one wasn't an option due to what they were going for online. If you wouldn't mind my borrowing it that would be great. I can PM you my info. I have the tools, and intend to call and talk to Al today to get everything I need for the seal change. THANKS!! | ||
| Firemanjim |
Mike, what is wrong with ecm you have? | ||
| Mike_hype |
I feel like the mapping isn't right or something is set wrong. The bike runs very rough and takes 10 minutes to warm up and run without giving it throttle. Fortunately, Jolly is on the case and we've been discussing it over the past two days. | ||
| Jolly |
It sounds to me like more of a case of possible intake leaks that need to be addressed first or at least confirmed that it either is or is not a problem. After that then its simply a trouble shooting option to try a different ECM. I looked at some photos he sent me and it doesn't appear that his force winder has any type of support bracket tying it back to the heads with the breather bolts. tough to tell in the photo but if that's the case then that great big force winder is just hanging there pulling on the intake. its very possible that once the (if present) intake leaks are fixed, injectors checked and replaced if bad or dirty, that the bike runs better and doesn't truly have an issue with the ECM. Arent the injectors available through the local NAPA or other type store as a replacement for a car? I cant remember what brand type and model though.....ANYONE have this info handy?? My thoughts on getting his bike sorted are: 1. Sort intake leak 2. sort support bracket 3. check injectors for good spray pattern 4. check for exhaust leak 5. trouble shoot by swapping ECM if no intake or exhaust leak 6. sort all oil leaks - starter gasket, stator plug 7. Bike has stock rocker box assembly and probably original gaskets...I would also assume that it has the paper gasket under the rocker box.. definite leak...either now or later 8. main seal if required 9. primary chain adjuster is stock / replace and set to 3/4 play at tight spot | ||
| Mike_hype |
Did you get my message this morning, Dave? I found that bracket in my box-O-parts. | ||
| Mike_hype |
When you get a chance have a read through this thread. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/469180.html?1245431211 He left the bracket off because the bolts were short... | ||
| Mike_hype |
The spacer goes next to the Force elbow, after the brace is bolted to the heads. My bike is FI, it may be a different set-up. | ||
| Mike_hype |
http://www.useforce.com/forcewinder-xr-2-air-intak e-kit-for-99-02-fuel-injected-buells-gloss-black/? page_context=category&faceted_search=0 Pertinent info at bottom: If going from and OEM air cleaner to the Forcewinder a carb./throttle body support bracket must be used. | ||
| Mike_hype |
Shoot!! American Sport Bike will be closed from Wednesday, June 10, 2015, through Thursday, June 18th, 2015. We will be back open on Friday, June 19th. Existing orders will be processed with highest priority when we re-open. The store is effectively turned off during our closure, ordering isn't possible. | ||
| Mike_hype |
::UPDATE:: I finally tore into the primary. The problem presented itself fairly quickly. There was no bolt holding the basket to the crank. But where was the nut? There was no damage in there that I could see, there were no bits of metal.... Off to the local HD parts guy where I purchased the nut. Once home I couldn't get the nut to grab hold at all. I fought with the idea of forcing it, but I was afraid that I somehow got the wrong bolt. So I went and got a beer and my buddy and I were going over the situation again when I picked the primary cover up again to look inside and clean when he saw it. The nut had lodged itself under the chain tension boot. Somehow, without slipping under the chain or destroying anything on the way, it rolled off, out to the end of the crank and sat there for however long it takes to completely smooth the threads off the inside of a nut, rolled around inside the case and zipped under the boot. So all I had to do was get a thread tool, rethread the beginning of the crank and the new nut spun right on. I'll put it back together today and hopefully I'll be up and running again soon! Thank you all again for all your help and suggestions, especially Jolly for the hours of free phone support!!   |
