| Author | Message | ||
     Val_air |
I cannot seem to find the right map combanation for my newly purchased PCII. Can anyone help me out. Here is what I have.....1999 x-1 with a supertrapp slip-on exhaust, K&N air filter and a Race ECM + the PCII. Does anyone have this combo and how did you go about picking out your map. HELP!!!! | ||
| Tim |
Last I heard the PCIII was for use with the stock ECM, not the race ECM. What problem were you having with the race ECM that caused you to add the PCIII? (Message edited by tim on September 07, 2004) | ||
| Kevyn |
...IF you have access to a dyno-tune shop, they will make a custom map for you? The shop tuner will work from a 'zero' map and build it up. Probably will take a bit more time to complete but well worth the time and $$ if you can't get a race ECM to work... | ||
| Val_air |
Tim, I was not impressed with the race ecm at all. I had a hard time starting the bike and had popping...almost stalling, when I cracked the throttle at a light or something like that. | ||
| Val_air |
Kevyn, Yes i have access to a couple of Dyno tune shops but I am not willing to shell out 250.00 big ones to get the thing tuned, call me cheap but that seems like a lot of cash on top of what one of these PC's cost. I would sooner sell the damn thing than to put more money into it. | ||
| Kevyn |
We'll assume your intake seals are not leaking and your 02 sensor is working properly... 'popping' and stuttering at low RPM are sometime indications of leaky intake seals. Even if you were lucky enough to find a PC with an X1 map, the map wouldn't be for your bike and you'd end up having to tweak it anyway. Upside, it would take a lot less time to 'build' the map. Any work you would do with a PC would be fruitless with a bad 02 sensor or leaky intake seal... If you're an adventurous soul you can 'tweek' the PC on a ride...just follow the directions in the manual and you should be able to find at least a good running position. shouldn't matter which ECM you're using. I'm fairly certain you can call Power Commander or email them and get some better in-depth technical information about how the PC operates and how to make manual adjustments in each of the zones. Good luck, I understand not wanting to spend $$ but after you get it running as good as possible, spending $$ for a dyno-tune will be worth the investment. Throttle response?!! | ||
| Outrider |
Val...No disrespect intended, but... Beats me why anyone would do all the mods to their bike and not use the appropriate tool to complete the job. In this case, the tool is a full dyno tune with exhaust analyzer. The little you invest upfront can save you many times that if you guess wrong with the set up and blow the engine. Seems penny wise and pound foolish. | ||
| Val_air |
Well folks, It looks like I am going to get it Dyno'd. I have an appointment this thursday. I appreciate everyones responce and i will definately let you all know how it goes. Final note is this.....PC's are sold without giving you indepth information on how to tweek it yourself (most people don't know this, I'm sure). You spend up to 300.00 for the unit and then have to spend another (up to) 250.00 to tweek it. Is all this money worth it???? | ||
| Scabs101 |
val-please do keep me posted,i am having the same problem(also have race ecm and not impressed)Trying to dicide to put power comander or techilusion,and if that would fix my problem.I am on my way to my shop to change my intake seals to rule them out.Will let yall know.I am also looking for information on megs header(looks just like force)if any one can help. | ||
| Outrider |
Val...It is truly worth every penny and more if installed and set up properly. Just consider the Dyno tune as cheap insurance with a side benefit of knowing exactly what is going on in your engine. | ||
| Val_air |
Well folks, today was the day. I got my PC tuned to my bike. I can honestly say the bike is finally running smooth through all throttle positions and openings. The only thing I am not impressed with is horsepower........it stayed the same, right around 81hp. Scabs, I want you to keep in mind (which is something that I realized) that the PCII is made to improve your fuel curve....rich...lean that sort of thing. It does not come set up with different "tables". I don't know exactly what these tables are or do but they exist on the PC for other bike applications. Maybe that is where you pick up the extra horsepower.....who knows. | ||
| Val_air |
here is a picture of my bike.  | ||
| Outrider |
Gee, just had my X1 dyno'd this morning at 85.2 hp and 69.6 torque and that is set for low and mid range performance. Had to readjust the Techlusion DFO slightly as it was running a little lean on the bottom and fat on the top. Most likely due to engine wear since the intial set up almost three years ago. | ||
| Outrider |
Whoops...forgot to compliment you on your bike. I noticed you are an airbrush artist in your profile. Any chance of seeing some bigger pics of your bike. It really looks intriguing in the sample you posted. | ||
| Mikej |
Bill, Click the link in his profile. Lots of nice pics of his work, and a couple of closer ups of that X1. | ||
| Outrider |
Yikes...Val is really good with an air brush. Not to mention creative in his designs. I am truly impressed. His work looks so good, I would almost hate to take it on the road and risk the elements. | ||
| Mikej |
He's not that far away either, in the off season he could probably do up a real nice job on your bikes. Would be a very nice memento to take back to Cali sometime. | ||
| Outrider |
Mike...the longer I stay here, the less I want to go back. Am seriously looking for creative bad weather activities so I can be a happy camper year round. Seems the folks here are growing on me and I like the atmosphere. Bet you never thought you would hear me say that, eh? | ||
| Mikej |
"Bet you never thought you would hear me say that, eh?" Actually it doesn't surprise me. Apart from no mountains this ain't such a bad place to live.  | ||
| Outrider |
Don't need no stinkin' mountains. We have SW Wisconsin and the Glaciers did a nice job of not filing that part of the State flat. However, a little more global warming and a 12 month riding season would be nice.  | ||
| Val_air |
Thanks everyone for the comments on my airbrush work....I appreciate it! If you interested in some work being done.........contact me! Outrider, what type of goodies do you have on your bike (exhaust and what not). AND!! does anyone ever have a problem with the lower RPM's on their bikes? I still get popping every once in a while while idling and revving the engine (little twists of the throttle while sitting at a light). Sound familiar to anyone???? Yeah I know.....Val and all of his problems. | ||
| Outrider |
Val...Nothing special. Just a K&N filter, gutted airbox, Jazz Catch Can, V&H muffler, Race ECM and older Techlusion DFO. My objective with the mods was to make the engine breathe easier and last longer not have the fastest bike on the block. The only reason we added the Race ECM is for some reason the DFO caused a surging condition with the Stock ECM. We tried for three days to get the surge out but nothing seemed to work and the Stock ECM with the mods and without the DFO was really lean. My Tuner dyno'd for keeping the A/F ratio between 12 and 13, not for max HP, as I like to use the low and mid range torque and work the gear box in the twisties. Could have gotten more out of if but I would rather pull from 2,000 rpm's in town than run redline in the twisties. Problems...What Problems? Just opportunities in disguise. LOL (Message edited by Outrider on September 27, 2004) | ||
| Scabs101 |
Val,I have the same problem,from idle to about 1800 rpm is where mine pops,hickups and farts.I have a Megs racing header,race ecm and forcewinder intake(carb. model with xr2 filter for hole to put IAT senser-cheaper that way.)i was way too rich before the intake now too lean,same problem before and after.if you find a solution please let me know. | ||
| Neversellit |
Yea, I think, If a "Stumble" is comparable to a pop or hickup. Sometimes when downshifting, if I blip the throttle too quickly my 99 X1 Stumbles. Almost like the motor can't keep up with the throttle. I replaced the Intake Seals (2), Except I couldn't separate the Throttle Body from the Intake Manifold and change that Seal. 99 X1 with V&H Muffler, Gutted Airbox, Race ECM and Power Commander. Oh Yea, My Power Commander is set at 0. | ||
| Val_air |
I will keep you guys informed on what happens. I am going back to my tuner guy and having him richen up the lower rmps.........since a dyno only seems to tune 3000rmp and up. I have changed my seals before and just last week shot some "solution" around the throttle body and nothing happened.......so that is out of the equation. | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
Val, firstly that off idle pop or hiccup is becuase your twisting the throttle like a carbed bike. In a carb it take the intake air to pull the fuel, in a fuel injected bike, the moment the throttle starts moving the injectors start pumping. So for off idle like at a light you get more fuel then airflow. If you get in the habit of just rolling the throttle instead of a quick twist that pop should disappear. If it doesn't, start looking for an intake leak. A leak doesn't have to just be around the seals, it could be around an injector as well. Second, the PCII can only effect the computer signal from 2500rpm and up. The PCII has no effect in the "Blackbox" area of the ECM map. On the XB's its blackbox from 3500 and down which is why the PCII is less effective for the XB's even though the X1 uses the same FI system, just very different mapping. | ||
| Kevyn |
..."Oh Yea, My Power Commander is set at 0." Your tuner will 'build' the map from that '0' point. Once the air/fuel ratios are corrected, throttle response will be significantly improved. HP and torque improvements are achieved with the proper A/F ratios...usually anywhere from 2-5 HP increase can be found with proper dyno-tuning and the torque curve should be mostly free from dips and peaks. Good luck, let us know how it turns out. Once your X1 is dialed-in, I'm just about certain you'll have a finer appreciation for that T-Storm motor. | ||
| Neversellit |
Wycked, Your Fuel Injection theory sounds right on for my stumbling throttle issues. Now I'm wondering how Val airs Mapping is going. Kevyn, My PC is set at 0 due to my mistrust in a "Technician" who calls it a "Power Commander Thingy". So Cal seems to be lacking competent Techs! (Message edited by neversellit on October 20, 2004) | ||
| Val_air |
Well folks, I was able to go to my tuner yesterday (since the weather here went to •••• for the past 2 weeks), The bike is running nice and smooth. My dyno read-out looked like a nice smooth hill. The tech. told me that the fuel injection system on the '99 ran really lean at startup (which according to the read-out was true). He richened up the low end (under 3000)....the idle sounds more consistant than usual and the bike runs really smooth now..........very happy. It's like riding a whole new bike. The tech. and I ended up changing my exhaust note as well. I have a supertrapp on mine with the internal disc's. Well we decided to cut a hole in the end cap.........sounds nice and obviously breaths better. So that is the scoop folks. | ||
| Outrider |
Val...Post the Dyno results. Would like to compare them. | ||
| Val_air |
Outrider, I did not get the printouts from the last 2 runs. But I will try and scan and post them. | ||
| Val_air |
......them being the first session of Dyno runs. Would you like me to send them to you directly? | ||
| Outrider |
Val...Not necessary if the first run in the dyno tune process. Am interested more in what your final results are than work in process. In my case, I didn't go for top HP, I went for the A/F ratio for engine longevity. Just interested in what kind of numbers you can get with a relatively stock X1. | ||
| Val_air |
Outrider, I can tell you, and I think I mentioned it before that I am hovering right around 82hp with only 64ish in torque. I was a bit surprised by the tourque myself. | ||
| Outrider |
Val...Looking at the mods in your profile, I would think that you should be able to get better numbers than that out of it. However, I understand that not all dyno's read the same and calibration is important. Thus, we may be talking apples and oranges. I was always under the impression that the PC unit could deliver a tad more HP & T than a Techlusion DFO. The only reason I chose the Techlusion unit is it was recommended by my tuner and he had both in inventory. If you have not already done this, you may want to check with some of the other X1 owners that have PC units and SuperTrapp muffs. Check for the settings on the PC's, the number of diffuser rings on the SuperTrapp's, other mods and the related dyno numbers. Also, did you just add the K&N air filter or did you gut the airbox and add the Sportster venturi ring as outlined in the X1 Files. I gutted mine the way they recommended and routed the breathers to a Jazz Catch Can. No more lard building up in the throttle body once that was done. No more oil spots on my right leg either. LOL During this last tune we set the DFO to keep the A/F ratio between 1.2 and 1.3 for engine longevity and didn't go for the performance numbers. I ride in the low to mid RPM range (3.0 to 4.5 primarily. Rarely, do I hit 5.0) and never use the top end anyway. So pushing the numbers wouldn't give me enough more power to make it worth shortening the engine life. I like my toys to last and be reliable. Sprints don't interest me but hauling in the twisties does and that is why I like my X1 set up like this. The torque and handling make up for the lack of top end HP. Whoops, I just remembered reading that one difference between a 1999 and 2000 X1 is that the 2000 model has a lighter flywheel. That just may explain the difference in the numbers. Just a thought. Let me know what you end up doing with the bike and the numbers you get. | ||
| Val_air |
Outrider, Yes the airbox has been fully gutted and the ventury ring put in place. I was talking with someone this past weekend (fellow Buell X-1 owner), he has a 2000 x-1 with just the race ecm and a fully modified thunderheader exhaust (fabricated to fit his bike) he might have a K&N also, not sure, but his bike was running in the 90+ horsepower range. So in a nutshell, I am not dumping anymore money in to this ride.....I am going to ride it another season and probably get rid of it and move up to a big-twin. | ||
| Outrider |
Agreed about not dumping any more in just for a little more power. I like mine just the way it is. Sure a little more would be nice but the trade off concerning reliability may not be worth it. If I had your talent, I would be buying and and selling bikes all the time. If for no other reason than to continually provide myself with a fresh canvas to perform artistic magic on. | ||
| Val_air |
Thanks Outrider, But, I have to find cheap bikes to repaint and find designs that are likeable all around AND of course the $$$$$$$. |
