| Author | Message | ||
     Puls4521 |
Hi all! I'm really new to the Buell community and also new to BadWeb, but I could tell right away that this was a great site for people who share an awesome passion. I recently bought a S1W Lightning from a friend who had been storing it for 8 years. When I first saw the bike I didnt have the money at that time to buy it, but being a great friend, he told me I could start working on it to bring it back to life, after all he had it in storage this long with no intentions of bringing it out anytime soon. So I threw it on a trailer and took it out to my shop. He was the second owner and didn't know all the details about the bike (originally telling me it was a S1) but through some research on this site, I checked the VIN and it indeed had a YS in it! That along with the Black, no polished fins, heads assured me it was indeed a S1W. He had put a Force exhaust and Forcewinder intake on it, but couldnt get the jetting right, he had also tried to jump start the dead battery with a car  which took out the voltage regulator. So a few jets, CVP emulsion tube, carb rebuild kit, and a new voltage regulator later and she was ran great. Sorry for the long intro... As of recently it is all mine, paid in full. So the plan all along was to get it running, then tear it all the way down and build it back up from the ground up. I want to do this build to the highest standards I am able. Although I dont think I will have the budget to do absolutely everything I want to do over this winter, I would like to get the vast majority done and have it read to rock come spring. The plan is to have the frame powder coated, along with the primary cover and cam cover, as well as the swing arm and other various parts. I have spent 4 years HVLP painting, so the tank and plastics will get a fresh coat of paint as well. While I have the cam cover off, the upgraded oil pump gear is going in, that only seems logical. So I will post pictures of my progress, as it stands right now, it has been nearly completely disassembled. If anyone has any suggestions feel free to send them my way. I'm sorry for the long write up, I just want to fill everyone in on whats been going on! Thanks everyone for reading and helping with this project that I'm already head over heels in love with! Due to the size of the photos I will be uploading them to my Facebook account, the link is below and the photos should be open to the public. https://www.facebook.com/kevin.puls.564/media_set? set=a.10151996445214604.1073741825.729004603&type= 3&uploaded=4 | ||
| Jefc73 |
Welcome. There are several of us doing rebuilds etc on recently acquired Buells. Iam doing a freshen up on a 98 S1W myself. Not sure Iam going to take it down to the frame but replacing lots of parts and going to powdercoat some things as well. | ||
| S1owner |
Welcome There are several things you will want to do while you are at it. 1) goto the knowledge vault and download the free manual. 2) new updated front and rear isolators 3) updated exhaust hanger 4) replace the paper head gaskets 5) replace the grenade plate (clutch) Also search this site for painting the tank they are a challenge. Good luck and keep us posted! | ||
| Puls4521 |
I was really surprised to see how many people were doing S1 rebuilds this winter! Thanks for the advice on replacement parts. I have the full service manual, doing half this without that would be crazy. I definitely planned on the gaskets, thanks for the tips on everything! | ||
| Puls4521 |
American Sport bike has 2 options for head gasket thickness, a .04" and .03", .04" is stock, obviously the .03" will raise the compression, any suggestions on which one to go with? | ||
| Oldog |
consider a new belt and sprockets while its apart | ||
| Jramsey |
American Sport bike has 2 options for head gasket thickness, a .04" and .03", .04" is stock, obviously the .03" will raise the compression, any suggestions on which one to go with? I believe Ken meant replacing the old style paper rocker box gaskets with the updated coated steel gaskets. I wouldn't replace the head gaskets unless there is a obvious leak.} | ||
| S1owner |
Yes that is what I meant | ||
| Puls4521 |
Ok Thanks for the advice! American sport bike has a gasket kit that is supposed to have every seal for the engine. I will have to replace the gaskets for the primary, cam cover, shifter shaft, and the rocker boxes. I'm thinking that it might not be a bad idea to buy the set and get everything. Thanks everyone! | ||
| Jolly |
while you have the cam cover off have you thought about about having it under cut? it adds a look of style and gives you a little better access to check hose fittings and pump. NRHS has a jig they use to cut these things down if you had seen any photos and were considering it. xb rocker box covers and a catch can do a lot for these motors, I've done it to three of my Buells and it really helps the motor breath better, and I would sear since they breath better they run better, others might try and convince me its wishful thinking, but I swear they run better. http://www.nrhsperformance.com/mwcamcutdown.shtml | ||
| Ratbuell |
If it's running, I'd ride it some before you start tearing into it. Maintenance items, go ahead and do...but as far as performance stuff...you need to ride it and learn about it to see what exactly you want to update / alter / change. I'm willing to bet once you ride it, you'll be happy the way it sits  Update it, preserve it, and ride the snot out of it - that's what I do with mine! | ||
| Puls4521 |
Thanks for the link for undercutting! Its definitely something I'm thinking about doing, I love the way the cam cover looks once its undercut. I just finished taking the cam cover off tonight, making to sure to take plenty of time, follow the manual to a tee, and label everything! As far as performance upgrades go, I really didnt plan to do any this winter. The main focus was to take care of all the self-destructing parts, (oil pump gear, grenade plate, isolators, new gaskets and seals). While I have it down this far, I plan to have the frame and covers powder coated. The xb rocker covers are something I definitely want to do. I keep hearing how much better the engine breaths with them, unfortunately I dont think its in the budget this winter, These things are wicked fun to ride and I cant wait to get it back together! I have never ridden anything close to as much fun as this bike. Thanks everyone! | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Kevin, By all means cut the cam cover down! NRHS will do a GREAT job but is is something you can do yourself. I've done a couple of them using a bandsaw and files. Takes about an hour. Since you are powercoating it, it's gonna look perfect. Some will take off the dowel pin section on the lower left, that's not a good idea since that is what keeps the back part of the cam cover from moving around. I did both of mine just like the NRHS version. Like you mentioned above, the gasket set has everything. Take advantage of that and replace the cylinder base and head gaskets when you have the motor out. You won't regret it. When you paint it, make sure you follow the recommendations found in the KV for surface prep and priming. It's really important to prevent bubbling paint. Brad (Message edited by bluzm2 on November 17, 2013) | ||
| Puls4521 |
Brad, Thanks for the advice, Im pretty certain Im going to undercut the cover, definitely going to do it myself, Im confident that with some time and care it will look awesome. As for painting the tank, Im definitely reading up on it. It does help that I have 4 years of HVLP painting experience, so I have come to learn 90% of the work in painting is prepping. It can never be too clean. I think your right about doing the base and head gasket while Im in there, and the engine is up on a bench out of the frame. Like I said earlier, American Sport Bike has a kit with the stock 0.040" head gasket and one with a 0.030" head gasket. Any advice on which one? I realize that the thinner gasket will bump compression, is there any need for this on a stock engine with only exhaust and intake? American Sport Bike does recommend checking valve clearance if you do move to the 0.030" head gasket. So worth it or no? Thanks everyone! Every piece of advice is appreciated greatly. Like I said Im pretty new to Buells and this particular engine, so Im trying to soak up as much as I can! Kevin | ||
| Koz5150 |
I noticed that you unbolted the front of the motor from the bracket that states "Do not remove". When you put your bike back together you will want to use brand new bolts and follow the instructions on the right torque setting and thread locker. If not, the old bolt WILL break off in the head and you will not be happy. Or you may end up stripping out the hole as you put it together. I know this from personal experience. Good luck and have fun! I also would recomend you replace all of the rubber isolators while you have it apart. | ||
| Puls4521 |
Ken, Thanks for the tip on the motor mount hardware. I noticed the "do not remove" warning... After it was off haha. Oh well, live and learn. Just one more item added to my ever growing American Sport Bike shopping cart! The isolators are definitely getting replaced. Thanks!! | ||
| Purpony |
its probably a good idea to replace those front motor mount bolts every couple of years anyways.... A little preventive maintenance before the break. | ||
| Puls4521 |
Sorry to bring this up again, but does anyone have anyone have any advice on the head gasket thickness? Stock .040" vs .030". The main reason I ask is because the price on American Sport Bike for the gasket kit with the 0.030" is significantly cheaper than the other, $150 vs $210. I asked Al about this he said the kits are identical other that the head gaskets, he isn't sure why Cometic charges more for the stock one, other than they might sell more of the stock thickness. | ||
| Pash |
You have loads of clearance between piston and head on stock Thunderstorms. You can go for the 30 thou one with no clearance worries. My X1 had over 80 thou clearance with a stock gasket (44 thou IIRC) which means I could have run without a head gasket (if the fire joint would seal) without the piston touching the head or valves (with stock cams). If you want to do the job properly, you can either; send your heads to Hammer and get them to machine a concentric and aligned squish band (note that your piston has a 10deg squish band and your head has a 15deg poorly cast squish band). You may be forced to buy 15deg squish pistons. Or get yourself some XB12 jugs, pistons and heads (and a front mount) and follow the Hammer advice on setting squish. | ||
| Puls4521 |
Pash, Thanks for that info! That is really helpful, I was just looking at squish info today on NRHS' website. For now I really want to keep this as low cost as possible. The only reason I'm doing the head and base gasket is because they come in the full gasket kit from American Sport Bike and I figured as long as I am this deep, I might as well do it. With that being said, is it necessary to have the the head machined? Or would it be ok to just replace the head and base gaskets and dive into machining or XB12 heads in the future when my budget is a little more flexible? I had read there is quite a bit of clearance (as you said yours was 80 thou). Would it be worth while to check the clearance with 30 thou head gaskets, or is it such a small change that its not worth worrying about? Thanks again! | ||
| Pash |
The fact is that there will be loads of clearance, but who am I to trust? You should always do a check cos my engine may have been at the end of the tolerance scale; a short rod, a short stroke, a long cylinder and a deep squish band... If you are going to use the thin head gasket and do nothing else, I would do this: 1. Assemble the engine with no heads and the cylinders pulled down with the head bolts spaced out with whatever you can find (pipe fittings as per NRHS or Hammer) and check where the piston crown comes. Ideally it should be flush at the edge of the squish band and the top of the cylinder. You wont get the torque or spread needed for the Cometics with these fittings, so take off 10 thou from what you see. If it protrudes, it is eating into your clearance by the protrusion and the 10 thou. 2. Look at the head and measure the depth of the squish band at the shallowest place. It will be more than 30 thou, or at least it was on mine. 3. Assemble the engine with the heads and rotate the engine by hand with some solder through the plug hole moving it around to catch the whole circumference, then measure. If you have more than 30 thou you are a winner... Of course, my preferred solution would be to buy an XB top end and a Hammer or NRHS (or Spondon440 if you are in the UK) front mount then assemble as per Hammer and NHRS tell you... | ||
| Puls4521 |
Pash, Thank you for that write up, that is incredibly helpful! Unfortunately I dont think I will have time to check the clearance until later this coming week. But as soon as I do, I'll be able to order the gasket kit! I hope to find time to cut the cam cover this week, this is the last thing I have to do before I can send everything out for powder coating. When I order the gaskets I will also be ordering the upgraded oil pump gear, and Im thinking the Barnett 9 plate clutch kit. With all this I should be ready for re-assembly. Thanks again! | ||
| Puls4521 |
I have a question to pose. I recently got in touch with the autos teacher at my old high school. I graduated a few years back but I was on really good terms with all the teachers including the autos teacher. I remembered that the school had 2 x1's donated by buell way back for educational purposes (all the serial numbers and Vin numbers were ground off so the bikes couldn't be titled again). One was a complete bike and the other was missing a few things. the school never really used them so I had the idea to ask the teacher if the school would be willing to part with either. They said that they didn't want to completely give the bikes away. But if I wanted to strip parts off the less complete one, I was welcome to. So my question is what would be the best parts to take to use for my S1W? I'm not really sure what is a direct replacement and what isnt. So what does everyone suggest I take for my build? | ||
| S1owner |
Well I think first thing that should be done is full disclosure on town school and teachers name and number then all parts should be mailed directly to me for full inspection! Seriously though most parts are interchangeable what parts do you need? | ||
| General_ulysses |
I believe the X1 swingarm is a popular upgrade for the S1. It's much beefier and looks better than the stock S1 swingarm. I've heard that the front forks on the X1 are better too. Not sure if they are directly swappable or not. Something to look into either way. | ||
| Puls4521 |
Haha I thought someone would have something to say about free parts! Ken, I dont really NEED anything, my S1 ran and was a full bike as of like 2 months ago hah. As far as what Sean said about the swingarm, I have heard that this is a popular swap to do, as the stock one is iffy. Does anyone know how much work is needed to fit the x1 swingarm to my s1? I have also heard that the forks on the x1 are better, I think I'll be grabbing those as well as numerous other parts just because I can! Any other opinions on what parts off an x1 would essentially serve as an upgrade for my s1? Thanks everyone!! I appreciate it more than you know! | ||
| S1owner |
The swing arm is a direct drop in 2-3 hrs max and easy to do you will need the axle and tensioners togo with it The forks are also a direct swap and much better very simple have a couple wood or plastic shims on hand it will make it painless If it comes time for you to do it I can walk you right through it very easy | ||
| Puls4521 |
Ken, Thanks for that offer! I will definitely take you up on that! All the parts that I swap will actually be part of the bike's reassembly because the bike is completely disassembled and everything is going out for powdercoating soon. Before:  Currently:  | ||
| General_ulysses |
If the school X1 has zero hours, I'd also grab known failure items like the voltage regulator and stator. See if you can get the starter too. Not sure all those parts are interchangeable, but if it's a free for all: GO 4 IT! lol | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Now would be a good time to weld in a frame brace. Unless you want to spend the money for the add on billet brace. |
