| Author | Message | ||
     Pikeben08 |
So now that I have my trans out it looks like I have rounded dogs on my countershaft second gear. So I'll have to replace that. But, I also noticed that when I turn the dogs to engage 2nd gear they only go in about halfway. Sometimes they go in even less sometimes they go in all the way. I also notice if they only go in part way if I turn the shift drum back in the other direction slightly that it will engage the rest of the way. What could cause this? Is the groove in the shift drum worn? Are the pins worn? What should the groove and pins measure? Here is a picture with half engagement, I've seen it worse than this though.  | ||
| Jim2 |
If your checking the movement with the transmission out of the bike any movement of the drum, mainshaft, or countershaft will mean they are not parallel to each other. I would think that this would cause binding of the parts that slide to engage. binding of the fork against the drum or the other end of the fork against the gear. Or binding of the gear against the splines on the shaft. Maybe this is why you have random success at engagement of the dogs? But I suspect the most critical alignment issue would be how far the mainshaft is driven into the bearing on the trap door. The FSM says to bottom the bearing out against the taper of the shaft but my observation is that this may be too far. I'm going to check mine next time I go in. I'm suspecting that the cause of wear on the dogs may be because they aren't engaging all the way and in some cases maybe just barely engaging. That transmission was supposed to be designed so that the assembly line tolerances aren't critical. I'm not so sure this is the case. | ||
| Pikeben08 |
Judging by how much the dog is rounded off I think this also happens when assembled in the bike. Also explains all of my missed shifts/slips into neutral. As far as mainshaft alignment, all of the rest of the gears seem fine as far as engagement, plus this is on the countershaft not the main shaft. I tried to take the drum out yesterday but one of pins is not coming out so I'll have to try some more tonight. | ||
| Pikeben08 |
I got the drum out. Looks like the edge of the groove is raised where the groove makes a point shape causing the shift arm to bind. I had to pound the middle one to get it off, grooved the crap out of the inside of it leaving brass shavings. Looks like I need some new shift arms, I might just replace the drum as well instead of trying to file it down. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Make sure your drum pins are not bottoming out in the bottom of the drum groves. I've not personally seen this but have heard of it. | ||
| Foximus |
I have a problem of my bike jumping out of 1st gear into a false neutral when I'm in turns... specifically right side turns. I cant imagine the weight of the gear would pull it out. When I polished and deburred my shift drum I didn't see any noticable wear to the dogs... Maybe I should go and back cut them some... opinions? Its somewhat dangerous in turns. It usually will jump in and out twice before it catches. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The dog wear is pretty subtle. It doesn't take much of a rounded edge to not seat fully. | ||
| Reepicheep |
For example, PikeBen08's photo above are about twice as bad as mine were on my M2 when 2nd gear would "jump". | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Yeah when my second gear was jumping, I couldn't even see the issue until it was pointed out to me by the guys at the shop. | ||
| Pikeben08 |
Filed the bad spots on the drum down for kicks and it fixed the binding issue but i still have a problem with partial engagement. If you have a bent fork can you physically see it or do you tell by the wear? I have some significant wear on the gear 2/3 fork so i suspect it is bent even though it looks straight. | ||
| Thylacine |
I am pretty sure every Harley Buell will eventually suffer from the right side lean dog problem. I am a machinist by trade and I recut them when this reared it's head. It's been fine for almost a thousand miles but I am so used to it happening that cannot bring myself to commit on right handers. | ||
| Devil_car |
I too have the right side lean problem, and I've read about it in other posts. I would think backcutting the gears would help prevent/eliminate this. Anyone with backcut gears care to chime in? | ||
| Pikeben08 |
My parts came in: Comparison of dogs:  Comparison of forks:  Somewhat improved engagement, but without the rounded dogs I'm sure it will shift MUCH better:  | ||
| Jim2 |
I just had my friends M2 transmission out on the bench the other day and I noticed that you have to hold the free end of both shafts with a bit of pressure in towards each other. This made a dramatic difference as to how much the dogs engaged while bench shifting. I hold my index finger around one shaft end and my thumb around the other. Squeeze the two together as you shift. It really takes a helper to hold/turn and shift. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
I've read of others here deburring and polishing their shift drum to really smooth out the shifting and reduce effort. Steve Mackey I believe is one of those. I've been wanting to do it for a while but just don't want to tear my bike down again. Preybird1 had his gears back cut and says it shifts like butter. That's another project I'd like to do. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yup, those dogs were toast. So what happens if you back cut them so the worn part is gone, but the whole tooth is narrower? How thin can they get? Do they have to be heat treated after cutting? | ||
| Preybird1 |
No heat treating after cutting the gears. It was a relatively cheap modification. I also had them replace all the bearings,springs,clips as well as the smooth shift drum kit and a new billet trap door to really strengthen things up. The reason i did mine was i took it into the HD dealer and they F'in broke the tranny and within 1 day it would not shift at all and the service manager tried to blame it on my smooth drum shift kit (that they installed). I ended up suing them in small claims court for breaking my tranny and refusing to pay for it. When it was done correctly and beefed up cost me $1300.00 The X1 shifts so nice now it feels like my jap bikes. When my tranny got stuck in between 4th and 5th at high speed at 120 mph i almost left the road because the bike had no engine braking. A that moment i decided i was going to get the tranny addressed before it killed me. I had the tranny beefed up to handle abuse of track racing! |
