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Jolly
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 11:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In response to another person with fuel tank/paint issues I am going to try another test on a cure.

Powder coating!

I found a company that has a high success rate with powdercoating nylon car parts like hood scoops. its not something they "sort of do", its one of their common services offered and they have perfected the process, in fact, to their claim, they are the only ones doing it. they pre-heat the tank and spray on low temperature powder, its complicated and not an easy process as it takes a different technique to do it correctly than with metal. they currently do a lot of car hoods and cowels, its how they got into it. They bake the part for about 6 hours to completely off gas any impurities, then heat it to the temp they need it at, spray on the powder, it bakes or drys into the nylon then they heat it for another 6 hours due to lower temperatur to cure it. it sticks due to the preheated surface. I spent a good amount of time on the phone with this guy and he said they are really the only ones doing it and it works best on nylon, not abs plastics....so maybe were in luck. this tank has been lined, (fail), sent of to be evaluated for hydrographics (fail) and now this...he also says that he is certain that the powdercoating process will cure the off gassing though the skin if its the right material. Im using a small black fuel tank for this test as I cant find the ugly pumpkin and root beer orange fuel tank I used for the other test.

I am sending the tank in today, once I get it back, if they are able to powder coat it I will pour in fuel and let it sit in garage for a few weeks.

Ill post photos when I receive the tank back.

Ill keep you all up to date here, hopeful that I have found a cure as I am really not interested in spending the money to get into vacuum bagging carbon fiber as my next test will be to wrap this thing in CF.

let the next test begin!!
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Foximus
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

and how much are they charging... since most of the cost of powdercoating comes from prepping... and there is no sandblasting involved here.
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Jolly
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 04:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I dont have a price yet, they want to run some tests, heat it to different temperatures to determine best approach and see what does off gas when heated. they're going to do some testing on stripping, prepping and temperatures for prepping and curing for me. After they test procedures on my tank they will set a cost for us to do more. I should know more in a week or so, I did let them know the "buelligans" are standing by with high hopes!!

This may be a wasted effort and a loss to a tank, or it may be the ticket. since they do have experience in powdercoating nylon Im hoping its the cure!!!

current costs...

1 small tank to "donate" to the test
$30.00 in packing material and box
$30.00 to ship

Elvis has left the building!
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Buellrobot
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Maybe it'd be worth trying with a flyscreen or a chin fairing first? They're smaller and/or less critical to have on a bike.

I'm interested to hear how it works out, either way.
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Rsm688
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Definately let me know how it turns out. If it works well I might get my tank/fender/seat cowl done up that way. What company are you using to test it out?
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Kilroy
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

awesome - keep us posted
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S1owner
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wind screen and others are not ghe same material or exposed ti the same conditions. As for the process i found out that here in Mn the cities powder coat their nylon park bench seats and it holds up very well so it might be the ticket out!
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Loose1
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 06:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The problem isn't the paint, it's that it's a gas tank. The gas penetrates the plastic and works its way out pushing the paint away. You would need to seal the inside of the tank stopping the gas from getting into the plastic. I suspect powder coating will have similar results as just painting it.

I've been thinking of making a tank cover to go over the stock tank, like a blast or x1 has. Would solve all the bubbling problems.

Anybody have a small s1 tank for a mold?

Matt
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Jolly
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 07:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

the problem isnt fuel seeping through the tank, its been "reported(?)" that its actually off gassing which disrupts the boundary layer of paint to material (tank skin), its a thought that by curing the powdercoating to the nylon material at close to 400 degrees that this might be a solution. fuel isnt actually coming out of the paint bubbles. I have tried sealing the inside of the tank but could not get the material I used to adhere to the inside of the tank. I would agree that perhaps the best approach is stopping the problem from the inside instead of halting it on the outside....but been there tried that and no luck... did some research, came up with this as a possible solution since powdercoating is stronger than paint....here's to hoping it works!!

other folks have reported that if its perfectly prepped and painted exactly as it should that their tanks have not bubbled....which lends itsself to the thought that if I can find a process better than paint than perhaps we will be in luck...

I did use a small tank as a test...if this doesnt work, whats your plan for a tank cover? CF? fiberglass? ABS? how much to purchase?
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Loose1
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 07:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I make vacuum formed molds at work. My thought was a abs cover that could be painted probably held on with the gas cap retaining ring. But I need a tank for a mold. Preferable one that I can cut up. I'll need to add some material to it to account for shrinkage.
I don't know about cost because it's just a concept right now. I have the skills and resources but time is tight.
Matt
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S1owner
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Loose there is a link on his previous post painting a tank twice of a badwebber that made a cover for his manta tank looks great and works great take a look. I also know he brought this over here to keep the two seperate lets respect this if hids experiment works it will be awesome if not then we no that a cover is the best solution
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Jolly
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 11:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Talked to the company rep today, he has received tank and begun stripping paint to get down to base nylon material to evaluate options. I hope to hear something about capability and process by end of week.
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Someday
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My solution. Carbon fiber cover. The end.




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S1owner
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 09:10 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would love one of these
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Kc_zombie
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 11:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Someday, one off piece or production item?
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Someday
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 12:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

1 off. Very labor intensive and carbon fiber ain't cheap either.
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Kc_zombie
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mad skills man! Looks great.
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Littlebuggles
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2013 - 03:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jolly, it's been a while and this thread has dropped into the archives, but what is the word on this plastic powder coating?
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