| Author | Message | ||
     Mrsandman |
Ok, So my bike is currently at Harley Davidson in Az, where I just had the engine entirely rebuilt. I'm talking new heads, cylinders, pistons, piston rings, air filter/intake, and new fuel injectors and plugs...The works. After the rebuild they say that the engine won't fire and they suspected it was a Cam position sensor. Which indeed it was and the bike started to fire up again. So I go down to the shop and he starts it up for me and the bike sounds amazing and patriotic, but won't stay lit for longer than 1 min. High RPM it seems just fine. He isn't sure what the issue is at this point and he is looking into it but needless to say they have had the bike for 7 months and he admits to not being a buell guy and now i'm having withdrawls. Oh and the mystereous check engine light is on. Not sure whats going on but need help. Thanks gang. | ||
| Arizona_buell |
Have they checked for vacuum leak? Should I ask where you took it? 7 months OMG Not cool at all. | ||
| Mrsandman |
Honestly i'm not 100% certain why it has taken then so long. I do know there was a long period of time where they have not worked on it, because they said they where just too busy with other bikes? I know that the project wasn't agressivly worked on either. It's grand canyon harley in mayer. When i did look at the bike it looked and sounded amazing. i just wish they would complete it by now, they've had it since april of this year. Im not sure about a vacuum leak issue. Because that would be an issue at any rpm. It revs up just fine. Not sure what to do from here. | ||
| Azrael_cervale |
TPS reset and idle adjust? | ||
| Akbuell |
7 months to do a top end overhaul on a Sportster engine? Wow! Moving on, it now runs, after a fashion. Since there is a CEL warning, what is the fault code? Best place to start. Running for 1 min, look for/at the grounds. A poor ground could start to heat, causing an increased resistance and loss of that ground. Engine stops. There may also be a fuel delivery issue, in the sense of fuel pump, fuel filter ect. Finally, since the bike has been sitting for a long time - What is the condition of the battery and charging system? Our bikes tend to be goofy at times if the volts drop off. Hope this helps, Dave BTW, there is a way to 'get' CEL codes without a Scanalizer; let me/us know if you need that ... (Message edited by Akbuell on November 22, 2012) | ||
| Two_seasons |
I'd thank them for their help and take your bike back home. Either finish what needs to be completed yourself or have a performance shop http://www.nrhsperformance.com/ do it for you. Zac4mac works here and they know Buells. Are you certain the grounds are good and tight? | ||
| Mrsandman |
The job should have never taken that long, they actually called me back in may and told me that they where not going to finish the bike till November because of how busy they where. Funny thing is, they already had the engine completed but out of the bike. So I called their General Manager and had a few words with him and he got the project rolling again. Sadly they had still taken their slow sweet time on the project and it is now November and still not done? Trust me its been weighing heavy on me. So they did the engine which was just over $2400, parts/labor and it will be about another $2500 for what ever else they are doing. So the mechanic said that it may be a fuel delivery issue but my fuel pump is a year or so old and he suspects that it may be a clogged filter. He told me this 3 weeks ago. He said he wanted to blow out the filter with a compressor and check it out. So I called back after the 3 weeks and he says their compressor is down so he's been working on other projects (im pissed at this point). Im going to give them another call and see where he is at in the project this week. Its just sad how they have treated me and never kept me up to date with the project at all. It sucks because you guys are a wealth of knowledge and are very helpful, more helpful then they have ever been. Just for a bit of advise from you guys, should I take the bike back with the idle issue, even after almost paying the 5k? It just worries me that they Im paying so much for an incomplete project. I feel like they should be compensating me in some way? Im just fed up with these guys, super unprofessional. | ||
| Akbuell |
I am (Almost !!!) speechless. 'Blow the filter out'-with shop air??? After destroying the filter medium, the left over bits will go through the system and clog the new injectors. Wonderful plan ... And the compressor is down for 3 wks? Good thing they didn't have to change any tires during this busy period. I would call and demand they not touch the bike again, EVER. I would take it as is, and deal w/ the money later. I wouldn't let those clowns (many other much more colorful descriptors come to mind) change the sparkplug in my lawnmower, if I handed them the plug. Once it is back in your hands, we can fix it. Dave | ||
| Mrsandman |
That would be great Dave thanks so much. Yes, I believe that is a good decision Im actually probably going to pick it up on Tuesday, these guys have been clowning around for too long. If I wasn't a full time student, and super busy I probably would have dealt with this situation along time ago. Yah thats what they said, blow out the filter. Im now convinced that they truly didn't care. They will be receiving a "NASTY GRAM" from me and if they had any sense of common curtisy, they should give me a break on the labor for their lack of effort. Thanks again Dave for all your good advice, I have a feeling if it where you who looked at the bike you would have had a better idea than these clowns. Sadly im not familiar with some of the Acronyms "CEL" "TPS" that you guys use, LOL. Dave i'll let you know when I get the bike back. Thanks again. Tim | ||
| Akbuell |
You are very welcome. CEL - Check engine light TPS - Throttle position sensor Be sure and make the 'Nasty Gram' civil, polite, and fact-filled. Can still be firm and to the point. | ||
| Mrsandman |
hah, hah. I will do just that. thanks a million | ||
| Mrsandman |
thanks to you all as well. im glad i found this forum. | ||
| 6gears |
I would go get the bike WITHOUT paying for it..... And have my lawyer in touch. Just saying. | ||
| S1owner |
Ok this is crazy i rebuilt my s1 a yr ago. I brought it to Hamel power here in MN after a referel from a fellow badweber. They did the entire top end with new jugs, pistons, rings etc they did the fork rebuild, they put the new tires on and painted the engine plus a few other things. Granted i had everything apart so they had the motor fork legs and rims! It was under 2500 and if i pull in there with my bike with any issue he will put it on a lift immediately! I would pick the bike up negotiate a price keeping in mind all the poor service delays excuses lies and get a shop that cares about their work! I mean really they taking you as a fool and flat out lieing to you! Also file a complaint with the BBB there is alot of clought with them and the HD dealer will be forced to deal with you to get you to drop the case And just fyi there are many places like this not just HD dealers i have run accross it twice with my 4 wheeler latest one called me with the problem quoted me 650 told me it be ready Sat. I went there no wheeler it was not even there. Was told next sat went back it was there i had to wait 30 min for my bill and she says that will be 1700 i just stared at her well needless to say i took the wheeler gave them 650 and told them i will contact Artic Cat and talk with them abiut ghere dealers | ||
| Kalali |
So what is the CEL code? The bike is trying to tell you where it hurts... | ||
| Mrsandman |
@ Mr 6GEARS, Wish they would let me do that, but I have considered a lawyer but even with as big of a story I have im not sure that any laws have been broken. But I will be contacting the BBB in due time. I have to get my story in order for them. I will likely be picking up my bike tuesday and paying for whatever the amount is and not tell them a thing about my intentions, because they can still write checks. As far as the CEL goes, I have no Idea what its saying, the Guys at harley are the ones looking at it. Im getting it tuesday and im going to immediately build a good case and present it and then see what my options are. Thanks again you guys. | ||
| Azrael_cervale |
The State Attorney General controls business licesnses and complaints there can hurt a lot more than the BBB. If you received a quote and they exceeded it by more than 10% (double check) they have to have permission from you or its invalid I believe. I would check with a lawyer. It may cost you a little for the consultation but you may be able to save a lot. | ||
| Azrael_cervale |
My bike wouldn't idle after I fixed it from a crash that destroyed the header. The bike learns it fuel settings and after major work it needs time to relearn where it is in life. A TPS reset should be a 10 minute job for the dealer and would be step 1 to me. It fixed my idle issue but I did it myself at home. | ||
| Mrsandman |
How do you do a TPS reset? | ||
| Azrael_cervale |
You need the ECMSpy program and cable. They are readily available on eBay if you search "ecmspy". Then the reset is simple. I just follow this video whenever I need to do mine. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=i33__Qkvhn4&desktop _uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Di33__Qkvhn4 | ||
| Akbuell |
Were it me, I would be making arrangements to get a factory service manual, if I didn't already have one. Most important tool in the box,IMO. Once I had the bike, the battery would come out and be put on a charger. While that was going on, the tank and seat would come off. I would check and confirm that every connector was properly and firmly connected. Unplugging each of them and applying a small amount of dielectric and re-connecting would not hurt. Then check each ground point for clean and tight connection. Same for the battery cables and the ground strap from the engine cases to the bottom of the battery tray. Don't forget to check that the spark plug wires are seated in the coil properly. I then would check the entire exhaust system, torque wrench in hand. Pick various fasteners, esp motor mount ones, and confirm they are tightened properly. All necessary due to the quality of work the dealership has shown. Might do to replace the fuel filter, just because. Put the fuel tank back on; no need to bolt it down yet. Install the battery, turn stuff on, and see if the CEL goes out. Since you had a CEL issue, find the code and correct that first. You should now have a 'clean, level' playing field for engine start, and see what happens. Once up and running, then a TPS reset. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Mrsandman |
Roger that, I will be picking up the bike in a couple of days. Get this...I called Harley yesterday and I kindly stated that i will be picking up the bike tuesday and they said "OK, I'LL SEE YOU TUESDAY"...Not even a why, or are you sure, It was like FU customer, thanks for the favor...BS. So then I ask, how much do i owe on the work. Then they say, well we have to tally it up we will get back to you later in the morning. As we already know they have the work ethic and sense of urgency, like a crack head on welfare, they infact didn't call me back at all. So I called them back this morning and I get an, "OH IM SORRY, I SAW THE NOTE, I'LL HAVE THEM GET ON THAT TODAY AND I'll BE IN TOUCH LATER"...Still waiting. I'll double check everything on the bike for sure and i'll check the codes to see whats going on. Thanks again Dave, i'll keep you in the loop. Tim | ||
| Mrsandman |
Why I can't find a good website to download ECMSPY, is beyond me, any thoughts gents? | ||
| Elsinore401 |
Hello mrsandman. I am a motorcycle tech in phoenix. There is no way i would pay 5k for that work. You need to show up in person and get the work order and look closely at the work performed and the cost. Tell them you want that and just leave with it for a couple of days. You have that right for sure. They can't just charge you an extra 2500 for staring at it like a bunch of morons. Tell them you talked to HD customer service on the phone and they wanted you to call them back with a list of work performed. I bet that bill goes down immediately. I am a Yamaha tech currently, but I am certified in several brands and have worked for harley for a bit, the problem is that many HD techs are complete morons as far as any bike that is not one of the current 3 designs. The x1 has it's own fuel injection system and they can't figure it out because they are not good techs...that's it. Sorry for the long reply, but this stuff drives me crazy. | ||
| Preybird1 |
I would also want to see the flat rate labor book and see why they are charging that kind of money! I had to sue a HD dealer and boy did they get all nice and sweet when i served them court papers! Don't play games with those knuckleheads because that's all they do. Also i bet you didn't know that at a harley dealer they have a rule that if they are working on a non harley bike they will immediately stop and work on any HD that comes in. So if they say they are to busy it is bullschnit and they are blowing smoke up your ass. Get your bike away from those fools ASAP!! I had my engine built by dan at NRHS personally and it was only $2800.00 That was with new pistons heads jugs and all the stuff in between. | ||
| Mrsandman |
So here is the latest update. I spoke with their GM today, and I explained to him that, your guys at HD mayer are trying to charge me $3500.00 in parts/labor after i put down already $2400 for an engine rebuild. The problem i had with that was they kept telling me they are trying to figure it out be have no sucess (alot of head scratching they did im sure) and I payed for every second they drug their knuckles starring at it. I told the GM that I could only afford $2700.00 and if that cost was exceeded to let me know and i will do the work myself. Well needless to say, I never got that call and they totaled me out at 3594.00. I was like you guys are mistaken, what ever happened to my budget? as usual they claimed ignorance as if we never had that concersation and knew nothing of what I was talking. The GM asked what I wanted to do. I told him I budgeted 2700 on a complete bike, harley said they can do that and probably under that amount and im not paying more than that. So we agreed at 2300, on top of the 2400 I already paid. out the door 4700 even. Granted it could have been alot lower than that if the people working on actually showed an ounce of passion and consideration for my bike but based off their attitude towards me i was just a pain to them. If today didn't go down as planned I was definately going to get a lawyer and start the paperwork on these guys. I assure you after picking up the bike they will be getting a letter from me and I will be in contact with their GM again. I did not know about their lame rule where my bike goes on the back burner whan an actual harley roles in. Utter BS. And that should have brought to my attention along time ago. I am still very disappointed in them, I wish words could express my anger. However I did learn a very valuable lesson. PREYBIRD1, is there a way I can prove what you just told me about the whole ceasing the work on the buell when actual Harleys come in, because if I can prove this I actual may still file a lawsuit regarding customer discrimination. I appreciate all you guys input. | ||
| Jramsey |
"Why I can't find a good website to download ECMSPY, is beyond me, any thoughts gents?" You may have to register to download. http://www.buellxb.com/Buell-XB-Forum/Do-It-Yourse lf-Buell-Mods/ECM-Spy-Download | ||
| Two_seasons |
So, your bike went to the back burner when an HD bike came in for an oil change. I believe a lawyer and discovery are in order here. I applaud your coolness for such a young man, but don't roll over. The outcome favored the dealter...and you know it did. Pursue a lawsuit or flee. Your choice! | ||
| Elsinore401 |
It's not the slowness of the work that would bother me as much as where did the extra 2700.00 come from. Even at 100 bucks an hour, that is 27 hours spent looking at crap and not fixing it. I guess my question would be, what exactly was done for that much money? I know you probably don't want to get into it with these guys, but man 2700 bucks, I could take a lot of discomfort for that much money. | ||
| Mrsandman |
So I just picked up the bike and it started right up, but as expected it didn't idle for more than a few seconds. I immediately went over the bike and found a fist full of stupid garbage they ignored. (VIDEO COMING SOON). Anywho, my ECM spy cable did not come i the mail yet so here i wait. My friend helped me a bit and we just adjusted the idle screw one turn to the right and seemed to idle just fine. NEW PROBLEM: So when I went to take her around the block, I was leaving my parking lot and it just died. I didn't stall the bike or anything, it just died. I walked the bike bake to the garage and did a bit more testing. So i busted open the manuel and tested the Ohms for the kickstand switch, and no significant findings except, when the motor is cold and I pop it into gear, the bike will stay lit (This is all with the kickstand up) but when the motor is warm, the bike will immediatly stop running when i put it into gear. I have no idea why that is, but i did notice that the engine temperature sensosor that screws into the block was not even screwed into the bike, the reason is because the heads on the 2000 buell are different from the 1999 and the sensor is different for both bikes. So in short I have a 99' sensor on 2000' heads and I can't mate the two unless I buy a new sensor. I figure that may have something to do with it? i will be making I video, I documented everything that was wrong and I will post it in about 2 hours. Let me know what you think? I am halfway serious about the whole lawyer thing now. really fed up. |
