| Author | Message | ||
     Wolk625 |
currently I'm in the process of figuring out my tuning and might be able to use a few tips. I'm trying to track down the cause of sputtery cold starts and trying to rule out the easy fixes first. The bike will sputter and backfire ~1 min into the ride but is usually fine once it warms up. From what at least my common sense tells me is the cold start fuel enrichment might need adjusting - but without anything to compare it to I'm not sure what it needs.. Here's my data:    without knowing what they're supposed to look like I don't really know what to address. If it helps, it's a '00 X1 w. Forcewinder intake and Wileyco pipe. as always, thanks guys. | ||
| Thejosh |
TPS reset when it's hot, see if that helps. | ||
| Two_seasons |
180% enrichener on cold start is way too much. Mine is set to 130 when cold. At full operating temp, you should have 0% enrichener. Let the O2 sensor correct it through the approx. 1100-4000rpm range. | ||
| Wolk625 |
My last tps reset was right after a 20 minute ride still hot which I did notice made a significant improvement over before. I'll double check the cold readings tomorrow morning to see if there's anything else odd going on. I've been doing a lot more reading on tuning techniques and noticed my map seems pretty lean in some spots. I also read exhaust and injector leaks can really screw everything up so I'll try to check those out too. | ||
| Thejosh |
If you aren't hearing any ticks or pops, you probably don't have an exhaust leak. Reset your AFV back to 100 and your cold start enrichment shouldn't be at 180 so I would bring it down to 110 or 115 depending on how cold it is. | ||
| Kalali |
Your fuel map looks fine for your set up and while the 180% value may be a little too high I don't think that is your issue. I would look at intake/exhaust leaks first. You may (also) have a slight post-shut down injector(s) drip causing rough cold starts. Your AFV value (if too high) is usually a good indicator of leaking intake seal and/or injector o-rings. Keep us posted on what you find. P.S. Also clean all your main ground connections just to rule that out from the get go. | ||
| Itoandre |
It's very important see your AFV before and analyse if the mix was poor or rich, the normal range operation of AFV is 85% to 115%. Before reset the TPS and AFV, i suggest you to populate the maps with actual AFV (multiplying each cell) and after start to reset the TPS and AFV. | ||
| Kalali |
I am far from being a guru but I beg to differ with the previous post on a couple of points. I would not consider AFV values below 95 and above 105 normal. Secondly, if you have an AFV value outside this range and (blindly) multiply each cell value by X% (X= AFV - 100) then you'll be masking the real issue. The other related points to keep in mind are 1) AFV value is measured during closed loop and reflects the cell values in that section of the map but the ECM applies the difference to the entire map, and 2) O2 sensor only measures the rear cylinder. The approach I'd propose is first get the current AFV value. If its outside of 95-105, find the problem and fix it. Once you've fixed all possible issues you and still have the value fluctuate within the normal range, then you have two options: leave it alone or increase/reduce the values only for the fuel cells inside the closed loop section of the map a couple of points at a time until you can maintain a 100%. My suggestion would be to leave it alone if/when you get it within that range since the difference in driveability is hardly noticeable. YMMV. (Message edited by kalali on September 27, 2012) | ||
| Itoandre |
It's really, i agree with you Kalali the best way to fix it or find the problem is analysing AFV. I had got the same conclusion after changed my map logging data from ECM Spy is correcting if necessary the closed loop area with AFV and if you wanna improve little more, i have used the EGO Correction for correct Open Loop cells. The most important is that i was using the parameter of 85% to 115% and know i will use 5% of tolerance in my analysis following Kalali. Thanks, lessons learned!  | ||
| Wolk625 |
Soooo... update from today. Went out to the garage early this morning and plugged in and saw this:  that's pretty ridiculous for enrichment. Definitely changing that first. After getting home today ~15-20 min trip, 50-50 city-highway mix this is what I got:  When I shut the bike off after recording this I noticed I could hear a soft "eeeeeeeeeeee....... (sound of pressure escaping... lol)" coming from around the fuel filter area. - I think there were a couple times earlier this week I swore I thought I was smelling fuel, but this was always pulling away from a stop in a pack of other cars so I think I assumed it wasn't coming from me because the smell was only for a few seconds. So pretty sure there could be a fuel leak. I'll give the exhaust a better look-over and see if maybe I'm losing seal at gaskets or anywhere else. If the map's fine I'll leave them alone and see what gains I can make after fixing the cold enrichment. | ||
| Kalali |
If it were me I wouldn't worry too much about the cold start enrichment. Those are factory set values and the value looks fine after your ride. I just checked mine and it shows 165% with the bike sitting in a 72F garage. More intriguing is that your AFV went up 10% after the ride. My thinking is you have drippy injector(s). | ||
| Radon30 |
Why is your battery volts so low. Im not familiar with bike ecm's or ecm spy but in my world that would cause a no start or hard start under a load . | ||
| Wolk625 |
this morning I did try lowering my enrichment to test the results and it did help the problem for the most part. I still got some bad popping for about 2 seconds after I pulled into the street but after that ran much better than before. It'll still take some more messing with for sure before it's done. This weekend I'll pull the injectors and take a look at them. That cold start reading was actually right after I took it off the trickle charger- if that is low then maybe I should look into a new battery too. | ||
| Kalali |
The voltage reading from ECMSpy is generally inaccurate. Measure it directly at the battery with the bike off and under load while starting. Also keep an eye on the AFV and see if it continues to fluctuate down to 85%. The steady state 94% is within acceptable range. (Message edited by kalali on September 29, 2012) | ||
| Wolk625 |
so another update. I'm giving up on playing with tuning until I figure out more about what is really going on.. I have everything set back to stock now for the time being - at one point I had the tuning perfect for full running temp but anything less than that it would hit a "pop zone" from 2500-3k so bad it would barely accelerate then when the revs would pass 3k it would pull so hard I'd get mini wheelies - amusing but not what I'm looking for. I think I'll pull the full exhaust and intake and check every seal before I start throwing money at new sensors. | ||
| Wolk625 |
update 2: so, I've been finding some small leaks here-and-there and have been doing my best to fix them up. After doing this, though, my AFV is still plummeting way down to the mid-low 80% range... probably a pretty broad question but from what readings is the AFV calculated and what all components on the bike/environmental effects would be capable of skewing this calculation like that? | ||
| Akbuell |
My understanding is that regular, large changes in throttle/RPM's cause the ECM to think in open loop, referring to the fuel map and not paying a lot of attention to the 02 sensor. Small throttle/RPM changes, over a period of time, allow the ECM to think closed loop, and pays a great deal of attention to the 02 sensor, and adjusts the whole fuel map via the AFV. The book says closed loop is 02 sensor up to temp, and operation above 2500RPM in 4th or 5th gear. In my case, a small miss at cruise and an AFV in the 80's led me to find a 'drooling' rear injector. That was causing the rear cyl to be slightly rich, read as such by the 02 sensor, so the AFV dropped. FWIW, the service manual has an on-bike test procedure for the injectors. I did it with the throttle body in place, using a small mirror. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Wolk625 |
Yeah sounds like that's probably my issue. A last thought: does the X1 share injectors with anything else that might be easier to find? | ||
| Firemanjim |
And check your head temp sensor as if it can tell bike it is cold and add fuel resulting in your AFV of 80.Extra fuel from something is only thing that will skew AFV down. And that 180 % is only if temp is -10C. |
