| Author | Message | ||
     01x1buell |
So I found a sunoco that sells 100 and 110 octane fuel at the pump, I was wondering how the x1 would like it? | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Unless you're having problems with pinging and pre-ignition, or you plan to up the compression ratio to a point that requires it, you'll be wasting your money. The only advantage, and this may be a big one in and of itself, would be if the fuel in question is ethanol free pure gas. Getting ethanol out of your fuel supply is a very good thing, but the high octane fuel does nothing for you unless you need the high octane. In fact, high octane fuels, by design, are more difficult to ignite and they actually don't burn as well at the lower compression ratios found in factory engines. But yeah, if you want to run a specialty fuel that will actually help your bike in the long run, just find a reliable supply of pure gas with no ethanol. (Message edited by Imaposer2 on June 26, 2012) | ||
| 01x1buell |
Well that same place has ethanol free gas as well. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Are you really going to pay the $7.50/ gallon for 100 octane every time you fuel up? | ||
| 01x1buell |
honestly it doesnt bother me if it makes it run a little better. | ||
| Buellistic |
Run the HIGHEST OCTANE at the PUMP you can get !!! | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Octane is nothing more than an additive package that increases a fuel's resistance to detonation. Well, technically, octane is a calculation that gives you relative resistance numbers developed by testing, but it's achieved with additives. If you're not experiencing detonation, it gives no benefits. With that said, in some cases and with some brands of gasoline, the higher grades of gasoline do have additional additives (Techron, etc.) in higher concentrations than their lower grades, but the octane itself isn't doing anything for you. Anything over 93 octane is a complete waste on most any factory engine with standard compression ratios and timing advance. Of course it's your money so if you want to spend more for less, then that's anyone's prerogative. Now, if we want to discuss E10 vs. pure gas, THAT is a whole other story! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Alcohol-free premium would probably be the best. I think every place here in the people's republic of Massachusetts is required to jam 10% in our gas. | ||
| Imaposer2 |
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I know about that site. Try to find MA or RI on the list of states covered  | ||
| Buell_bert |
The way I understand it is, regular gas has a higher energy/gallon ratio and is more volatile which causes knock and ping in higher compression engines. Premium (higher octane)is less volatile and burns slower and has less energy/gallon so pinging and engine knock is less or gone in high compression engines. Nascar would love to use regular because you get more energy/gallon and you can drive farther but with the high compression it will not work. Very high octane racing fuel is a waste in an engine unless you need it to control knock and ping in a very high compression engine. When an engine diesels on gasoline it is compressed to the point that the heat produced preignites the fuel before the spark. This is what knock and ping are. Of course proper timing is needed also. And ethanol has less energy than gasoline/gallon and is harder on the fuel system in general I believe. I use regular in my daily drivers and premium (minus the ethanol) in anything that may sit for a longer period. Boat, lawn mower, 4 wheeler, kids toys, generator, etc. I would rather use regular but it has the ethanol and think this helps in the gumming and stratification of fuel in the system over time. This is my personal opinion and as always I can change my mind. | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Buell bert just explained it all perfectly!  Not only does ethanol do the things he described but it is also corrosive and has an affinity for eating different types of synthetic materials commonly found in fueling systems, like, fuel hose, fuel pump parts, carb seals, o-rings, vacuum diaphragms, etc. Do a little reading on the issues Ducati has had with their newer plastic fuel tanks... Just bad stuff that is best avoided if possible. | ||
| 01x1buell |
well i went to that gas station today and the only gas besides race fuel they had that was ethanol free was 87 octane so i said screw it and bought 5 gallons of 101 to put in the bike the 101 was $8 and the 110 was $9 a gallon oh well the stuff does smell good though. it says for race use only on the pump. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
It's probably Tolulene and a bunch of other non-gas stuff combined. My friend used to drag race a converted snowmobile with that race stuff. If left, it decomposes bad. So use it up! | ||
| 01x1buell |
well i just figured i would try it. | ||
| Imaposer2 |
A cheaper route to obtain an octane number that your bike can actually use efficiently, while still avoiding the ethanol would be to mix the pure 87 octane and the 110 octane race fuel at approximately a 7 to 3 ratio. This will give you ethanol free gas with an octane of approximately 93 which is still more than high enough for your bike. Still kinda pricey though. Of course you can lower your final octane by adjusting your mix ratios. A handy octane mix ratio calculator can be found here: http://www.wallaceracing.com/octane-mix-calc.php But, yeah, the higher the octane the faster the fuel generally degrades and loses the more volatile components that are giving it the higher octane numbers. Let that $9 a gal race fuel sit too long and it'll be no better than regular pump gas. Maybe worse since it isn't formulated for typical gas usage rates. There is a lot of chemistry involved in gasoline so it really isn't just always cut and dried like some people would have you believe. Still, you best bet would be to try to find a place that sells ethanol free gas of around 89 to 91 octane. | ||
| 01x1buell |
well i just called off of work for tomorrow so i can go ride with the fuel. So the 87 octane ethanol free gas was $3.70 here in pa which in my mind is not bad since i have a diesel truck which it is more expensive. So what you are saying is thAt i should buy 4.5 of low and 2.5 of 110 to get 95 octane ethanol free. so if i want 7 gallons of 95 octane i will pay $5.52 a gallon not to bad i i guess. Well i will let you all know how it acts int my bike tomorrow. | ||
| Imaposer2 |
That ratio sounds about right. | ||
| 01x1buell |
i used the site you posted then calculated the cost  | ||
| Kalali |
I also always thought that higher octane gas (only) helped with detonation, etc, but the (2012) Ford Mustang specs say it produces ~20 more HP with premium gas. What gives? | ||
| Imaposer2 |
Just a speculation, but it could be that it has knock sensors or somthing that allows the timing to advance when running higher octane fuels. With all of the modern electronic doo-dads now days there are ways of "tuning" engines on the fly. I don't know anything about the Mustang engines or what technology they're currently using. Whatever the specific reason, the higher octane fuel is only allowing the car to produce more power by some sort of tuning change that its detonation inhibition permits. But in general terms and with standard tune, the higher octane fuel itself adds no power. | ||
| 01x1buell |
i took it for a ride today and the only difference that i noticed was that the exhaust smelled good and it felt a little crisper when getting into the throttle. | ||
| Dj66ftw |
As i understand it,the slightly inhibited burn rate results in a longer "shove" down the length of the stroke rather than a "bang" up at the top,and so more efficient use of available power. But i could be wrong. | ||
| 2002carbon |
Race gas has a stabilizer in it. The shelf life is at least a year. Since you are from PA I would think it was Sunoco. | ||
| 01x1buell |
yes it was Sunoco | ||
| 01x1buell |
well after i little bit more riding and some ecmspy data it looks like the bike is running a tad bit more rich due to the fuel.. it normally runs at a AFV of 97 to 100 and now it is at 104, i am not complaining about it being rich i just hope that it is not to rich for the bike. | ||
| Buell_bert |
Checking the spark plugs will tell you if it is out of spec. | ||
| Kyrocket |
Going on a 12 yr. old memory here but didn't the X1 state to run it on at least 93 octane or higher if available? I'm thinking because of the 10.5 to 1 compression it had that requirement somewhere? I could be mistaken. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
The X1 is 10:1 from the factory. But yes, I believe 93+ is recommended. For me, that means as high as I can get at the time. I don't think I'd ever go higher than 93 in a stock engine. Even when I went to 10.5:1 compression in "Betty", I retarded the timing just a hair and she ran fine on 93. As for the ethanol, I HATE living in Audrain county. We're the biofuel capitol of Missouri, and proud of it  | ||
| Dano1z |
Being from a small town in Iowa, it's damn near impossible to find anything that doesn't have ethanol in it, i have to drive 25 miles to find 93 octane at a BP, but it's worth the trip in my opinion | ||
| Cheez2158 |
i also live in ia and ethanol is your 93 i found that a product called star tron stabLizes the gas removes some carbon and really makes the ethanol burn like gas my 97 hated ethanol and a capful of startron fixed it all do some research youll find this stuff is legit | ||
| Pikeben08 |
Imaposer2 you are correct. Also about the Mustang post, the knock sensors detect knocking and retard the spark until knock is no longer detected therefore also reducing the power. If no knock is detected then spark will advance to the point of optimum torque. So it's not really getting +20 hp from premium it's the car degrading itself -20hp while using 87. |
