| Author | Message | ||
     Bikerrides |
I need advice from experienced Buell owners on the joys and pitfalls of owning an old school Buell. I've been a fan of Buells since I first saw the 1996 S1 Lightning and was heart broken when H-D dropped the brand; I've always wanted one and now I have a chance. I've never owned a street bike before and am finally in the market for a bike. I don't want to drop a lot of cash and have found two very good options; an 04 Honda VFR 800 w/6K miles and a 1999 Buell S3T w/25K miles. Both are priced at $4K. My heart is with the Buell, but my mind says the Honda; less miles and proven reliability vs the H-D/Buell American Sportbike that I've always wanted. What are the questions that I should ask the Buell seller? What are the quirks and pitfalls w/the Buell? I know there were a good number of recalls that were issued on the early Buells. What should I look for when inspecting the bike? Any help and advice all of you can give me would be greatly appreciated. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Most folks here have Multiple Buells DR Greg Consorts with Italian Hotties till they dump him. He has had a Couple of Multistrudels but a Uly is still his daily driver. The Honda is nice good bike but it has no soul its an appliance. Buells are like big block Vettes raw powerful torquey I have 3 tubers a S3t getting ready for a overhaul 116k The M123t and the Hottie a Polished out S1W all are similar all are different. From a maintence point of view Belt drives separate primary and engine oil hydraulic lifters air cooled one carb. Great engine part availiblity In short Ride them both then you will understand why Buell owners are so into the bikes. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Bought three Buells in 2010, the '99 X1 Lightning was my second one, bought in late November. Rode it home in the cold. Even frozen stiff, the bike proved to me why I bought it...soul baby! Bought second tuber less than 30 days later. No other bike out there outhandles a Buell. None! I've owned one Honda and without a doubt, they have good engines. But there is nothing there to tug at you when you close that garage door at night. Basic maintenance that needs to be addressed: ...get a service manual, #1 task. Get a torque wrench too ...drive belt tension, usually very tight, needs to be very loose ...primary chain tension, usually the adjustment shoe is too tight. Over time, your tranny seals will suffer ...new brake fluid. Follow the manual. ...rear shock, seals break down over time and leak ...front forks, ditto...new oil and maybe a valving upgrade ...keep your battery terminals tight, carry a 10mm wrench...this is probably the #1 problem for HD powered bikes on the road! ...fuse/diodes box oxidation ...never wait until you're on fumes. You'll know your 3 gallon range in no time...and it gives you time to stretch Don't forget to adjust your suspension to your weight. Manual tells you how to do it. Carry small screwdriver with you and go over the bumpiest road you have around you and adjust and adjust until it suites you. Easy bikes to maintain. You'll probably find you'll be riding it more than cleaning it. Best wishes with your purchase. (Message edited by two_seasons on February 20, 2012) | ||
| Macnkor |
Look up the value adjustment price for a V-Tec VFR. Last year I had both a VFR and a Buell X1. Both are great bikes. The VFR is smooth, and problem free, but a bit pricey on service work. The buell is much simpler in design and easier to work on, but requires a little more love to keep it going. As of this year, I only have the Buell. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I once heard the VFR described as such: It's a fair bike at everything but it isn't great at anything. | ||
| Bikerrides |
Some interesting and insightful comments so far; keep'em comin'. As a musician, the soul comment made an impression as well as the fact that one of you has owned both, but only has the Buell remaining. Does anyone know if there is anyway to find out what recall work has been done on the bike, if I have the VIN? I would think H-D would have a database w/that info. I look forward to reading more posts. | ||
| Robinpeck |
Re: "No other bike out there outhandles a Buell. None!" None? C'mon. As much as I like my Buell, and as much as I respect your enthusiasm, I would never make a statement like this to someone who has never owned a street bike. I realize the whole concept of "handling" is a bit relative, dependent on suspension set-up relative to body size and riding ability, etc. etc.......but seriously, for "handling" try something like a 2011 Triumph Speed Triple 1050 or a KTM Superduke 990. I have a lot of experience with both.. I'm sorry, but you just can't compare any Buell to bikes like those. I'm reminded of an older guy who told me that I couldn't tell him anything about "handling" because he had a Norton Commando. (I'm old enough to have ridden the overrated Commando). That said, I'd still recommend the Buell over the Honda...for most of the reasons already stated by others...the very usable around-town torque, so different from the high-revving fours...and the maintenance is very simple Harley stuff...good for rookies...just make sure you clamp your mouth shut at the red light so your fillings don't shake loose. (Message edited by robinpeck on February 20, 2012) (Message edited by robinpeck on February 20, 2012) | ||
| Chauly |
I have an '86 VFR as well as my '97 S-3, and my Ol'Reliable '91 ST1100. Three very different bikes. If you plan on a lot of riding, the VFR800 will be the Energizer Bunny compared to the Buell. My S-3 has had engine problems, enough that I don't trust it for a long trip anymore. My VFR is way more sporty than either of the other two, but doesn't ride two-up or hold a lot like they do. Different bikes, different missions. I will say that up until the first engine rebuild at 22K (!)I was in heaven on that bike, and preferred it for one-up touring over the ST1100. YMMV... | ||
| Koz5150 |
If your heart wants a Buell, buy it. You 10 years from now you can always find another Honda... | ||
| Essmjay |
The '99 S3 will have some issues unless they have already been addressed. I have a '99 and a '02 s3 in the garage and the '99 needed A LOT more work to be reliable. If you really want a tuber, keep shopping. There are lots more newer s3's for less money. | ||
| Two_seasons |
I've owned Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki. Flat track, motocross, enduro, street. Started riding back in 1968. Took a long nap until 2010. Lots of changes in handling, especially in Japanese motocross. Not so much in Japanese street. Raw horsepower isn't useful in the corners. When I came out of my slumber, I went all out Buell. Only mfr that has the engineering detail where I don't feel like it's a take it or leave it when it comes to one aspect of the bike. I don't feel the Japanese have figured out the suspensions required by the average sportbike rider. Buell suspensions, even on the very old tubers, are a decent balance of form and function. Bet you never rode a Norton  . I allow my friends to ride my bikes. All other bike mfr's out there today are envious of where Buell has been. They are getting schooled by an old-school engineer that has a driven passion for sportbike innovation, as well as a lot of over-achievers around him, all the way down to customer service. I know of no other mfr that can claim the engineering integration of "the whole" (including rider comfort) that just works for the average sport bike rider. Each tuber has it's own soul. Do you want a symphony or a rock concert? (Message edited by two_seasons on February 20, 2012) | ||
| Robinpeck |
1968? So you're just a kid! I was licensed for the street in '64 I totally agree with your concept of "engineering integration of "the whole" (including rider comfort) that just works for the average sport bike rider." but I find it best exemplified in the 2011 Triumph Speed Triple (standard model, not the "R"). It may be there in some Buells as well....I'll accept your authority there because my only lengthy Buell experience is on my stripped down Pro-race equipped '98 Lightning S1 and its a bit "focused" (I have ridden a few other models..friend's Buells... but not extensively enough to have an opinion on them). A young friend (early 20's) who lives around the corner and rides a Suzuki GSX sport bike got totally hooked on my Buell after just one ride. They can seem amazing if all you have ever been on are modern Japanese sport bikes. (Message edited by robinpeck on February 20, 2012) | ||
| Sspilotmi |
I own an 04 VFR and a 98 S3t. Bikes are different as night and day. I would not sell either one. My Buell needed a lot done to it (clutch, fork seals, rear shock rebuild to name a few)when I bought it. Since then it has been trouble free for 6,000 miles, currently at 62,000. Honda has 17,000, owned it since it had 4,000. Just needs tires and oil changes. I skipped the 16,000 mile valve check on the advice of my mechanic, also a VFR owner. | ||
| Devil_car |
Obviously this board is going to be biased towards Buells, and a Honda board would lean towards the Honda... Buells, as have mentioned before, have more personality than the typical Japanese motorcycle. They vibrate, sound good, and have a ton of torque. Plus, they are more unique. I get a lot of people on motorcycles that want to take a look at my M2 and learn all about it. Japanese motorcycles, independent of make, all long very similar, while Buells stand out in the crowd. My biggest complaint with Japanese motorcycles (and cars) is that they are a pain to work on. The engineers that design them may know how to design a reliable, high power, efficient design, but they must never have even thought about the effort involved to maintenance them. I own several Japanese motorcycles (dirt bikes, a quad, and a street bike), and they are all a pain in the arse to work on. The Buell is relatively simple to work on. Even simple things like changing the oil are so much easier on my Buell than any of my other motorcycles. Plus, not having to mess around with a chain is a real plus! Just set the tension correctly (not by the manual) and then forget it! I had to edit, because I forgot... My Buell gets 50+ mpg riding it hard! How's the Honda on gas? (Message edited by Devil_car on February 20, 2012) | ||
| Robinpeck |
Japanese bikes hard to do routine work on? Yes...My brother, who has a PHD in Mechanical Engineering said he nearly committed suicide while trying to change the spark plugs on his Honda sport bike....but still, thats nothing...try an Austrian made KTM V-twin...an oil change on those things is an afternoon...three different drain plugs, two or three different oil screens, plus the actual oil filter, etc...all of them hidden behind various panels...and don't even think about getting access to the battery...odds are you won't find it anyway...the Buell (and my Triumph S3) are a breeze by comparison. | ||
| Bikerrides |
Thanks for all the posts, guys; I've learned a lot already! The seller said that the shifter mechanism was loose and was told by a H-D mechanic that they were just that way; sometimes hard to find neutral. He said there was a kit available to fix the looseness; anyone know about all that? He also mentioned something about the oil filler plug being a problem on that generation Buell. What about that? What are the recalls from the 99s that I'd want to make sure were done? Going to look at the bike tomorrow.  | ||
| Bikerrides |
I just talked to the owner and he has all the service records that indicate at least one of the recalls was done, work/adjustments done on the ECM a couple of times, recently had intake gaskets/seals replaced as well as the throttle cable along with the necessary adjustments to the throttle controls. He has the service records from the original owner as well as the financial paperwork, owners manual, and other literature related to the original purchase. Anyone have any thoughts? Dumb question, right  | ||
| Jim2 |
I think the kit he is talking about is the updated shifter that replaces the boomerang shifter setup for a more modern (but less cool looking) straight shifter setup. The new one reduces linkage slop by having much less linkage involved. My OEM shifter works just fine but does make some odd noise at certain idle speeds. If neutral is hard to find then things just aren't adjusted correct. The shifter pawl, timing chain(service manual is wrong on spec for this), clutch ramp, and clutch all have to be setup correctly. If done right no problems. | ||
| Two_seasons |
If finding neutral is hard, chances are the primary chain is adjusted too tight. I'd bet the drive belt is too. There are the usual maintenance items mentioned above but, once serviced, offer many miles of smiles. If you do purchase the S3, you could find someone in your area using the B.R.A.N (Buell Riders Area Network). It's located on the top of this page and you'll have to be logged in to open it up. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Buy it. Adjust it properly - maintenance, and suspension setup. Ride. Grin. Repeat. | ||
| Bikerrides |
So, I have found out that all recall work has been done on the 99 S3T. Essmjay, is this the work you were talking about in your earlier post? In general, do you guys think that 25K well-maintained miles is good for this bike? What are the typical maintenance issues that I could expect in the next 10K to 20K miles? He's asking $4K but the NADA and KBB values are around $3200 in excellent condition. I'm thinking of offering $3500. Does that sound like a fair price? Going to look at it this afternoon, so I'd like to have as much •••••••• as possible by then. Thanks for everything! | ||
| Chauly |
It pains me to say it, but offer him $3000. | ||
| Ratbuell |
And that's why all our values are in the tank... | ||
| Chauly |
OK, Rat, let's bend the curve upwards. I'll sell you my '97 S-3 with 38K and a newly-rebuilt engine for, say, $6000. That will give me enough cash to buy someone else's bike for too much money... Pay it forward!  | ||
| Ratbuell |
Pay a fair price for a good motorcycle. Don't overpay, and don't lowball. If all a buyer can afford is a $3k bike...look at $3k bikes, don't lowball a higher-valued one. I sell campers and routinely hear "will you take XX for that (instead of the asking price of XXX)". My reply is "no, but if that's your budget let's go look at things in your price range - I've got plenty of them!". People keep trying to buy caviar with a beer budget...which ends up making caviar worthless. There's no sense of value anymore, only an attitude of "I want it because its nice and I don't care what its worth, I'm entitled to buy it for the little I can afford to pay so you have to accept my offer". And for the record? I DID pay $6k for my S1W in 06. It had 1,100 actual miles and was all stock, with a V&H muffler and race hamcan (and original tires!). It was higher than the book said I should pay, but it was a PERFECT, unmolested original that was much nicer than the "average" bike the book refers to. So I bought it, and haven't regretted it for a second. I pay fair prices for quality goods. If I can't afford what its worth, *I* take responsibility for that and wait till I can afford it. If someone advertises a smokin deal? Sure, I jump on it. But I don't expect every deal to be like that. | ||
| Robinpeck |
Guys who go on and on about what their bike is "worth" can be a real pain...I remember this type of guy from many years ago when I was involved in the shooting sports and did a lot of firearm buying+selling ...there were always those guys who would rather own guns they got as a "good deal" (based on some totally fictional Bluebook values)...rather than own (and pay fairly for) actual quality guns. This attitude also doesn't take into account how relative the value of a buck is depending on your income. There is no objective value to a dollar. Some guys have to work a week of 10 hour days,of back breaking labor just to make ends meet and other guys make piles of money at relatively easy jobs (or even no job at all) and the rest of us are all scattered somewhere in between these extremes. But we all manage to ride. One more thing. Once when my '98 Lightning S1 was giving me a hard time getting into neutral I just put in fresh transmission fluid and the problem was solved. Sometimes it is that easy. (Message edited by robinpeck on February 21, 2012) (Message edited by robinpeck on February 21, 2012) | ||
| Essmjay |
On the '99- I would check if the original iso's are still in, is it the original belt, has the throttle body plate cracked yet, is the rear shock leaking, has the front muffler mount been upgraded, have the rear wheel bearings ever been changed. This all on top of the recalls. The iso's if original will need replacing (upgraded parts), and a new belt at the same time you do the rear iso's, because if you don't it will soon break after putting the isos in. The throttle body plate will eventually crack, the upgrade fixes the problem, but you want to do it before the original cracks or you may find yourself hurtling down the road at uncontrolled speed. At 25k I am betting the rear bearings either need replacing or have spun. And also, look for any signs of leaking base gaskets, you will be in top end rebuild mode before you know it if they are. Rocker box leaks, not as big a problem to replace the gaskets as you don't have to loosen the head bolts. Some of these things are mileage related, some age related, some poor original design related, but they will all likely need to be addressed if they haven't already. For 4 grand I would look for a S3 from this century, like a 2002, or do the better thing and pick up an S2. | ||
| 2002carbon |
You should look into the insurance for the two different bikes too. I had a VFR 750 in the mid 90's. A couple of years ago I was going to get a new VFR 800. I was approved for the loan and went to get insurance. They wanted 2200 a year. My buell is 450 a year. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Excellent point about the insurance. I pay less than $200 per year/per X1. State Farm My 1125r is about $370 per year. State Farm | ||
| Robinpeck |
State Farm refused to insure me when I moved to this province because I had one speeding ticket in a three year period..for going 68 Km. in a 50 km. zone...for those using mph... 50 kph is real slow...68 kph is still real slow...They refused to insure two bikes, a new truck AND a new house...screw them, I'll never buy insurance from them again. (Message edited by robinpeck on February 22, 2012) |
