G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Forum » Old School Buell » Archive through January 16, 2012 » Height of the Rear. Wondering. « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So... I have the XB front end. I love it. Makes the bike killer. However I'd really love to raise the rear to match ride rates.

Increasing the swing arm angle will make the bike brake better, and squat more... as well as making higher lean angles and more comfortable riding position.

I have my shock maxed all the way. So I'm wondering if anyone has tried mounting the 14.5" shock with the 16.5" bracket... Obviously the 14.5" shock would have to be extended out to lowest pre-tension... however I think that would raise the bike a suffecient amount....

Thoughts?

Or... anyone have a spare 14.5" showa to let me test this theory with?


Also, On a aftermarket rear shock... Penske... ? Or the other brand?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Purpony
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i asked this question and the reply i got was.. the difference in the mounts is going to lower or raise the bike to much.

I have a factory 16.5 bracket and shock on my bike, but i also have a 14" front bracket on the shelf, along with a penske and a 14" shock in the mail... so i can maybe play around with a couple combos for you shortly.

From my understanding, the penske is height adjustable...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Two_seasons
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Your riding comfort will not change with a preload adjustment. You are sitting on a seat pan that is attached to the frame and putting your feet on pegs that are also attached to the frame.

Putting your feet on the ground is another story.

From what I've read, IIRC, the rear shock preload on the older Showa shock should be within 25% of either end of the adjustment gradient to get your correct preload. Obviously, the spring cannot easily accommodate flyweight or heavyweight adjustments within the stock preload range.

This is why you have to give the Penske or Works folk your gear-on weight so they can put the correct preload spring on your new shock.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Two_seasons
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pur, the ride height is adjusted by turning the threaded rod that the rear eyelet is attached to. Loosen that nut and turn in or out the large threaded rod to adjust the ride height.

The tool Penske gave you is to re-adjust your preload spring if you are riding two up (holes in the large ring at the back end of the spring).
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Harleyelf
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 07:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you increase the travel of the swing arm beyond the limits of the shock, you will have problems later on. Upwards travel can be limited by using thicker stops than the stock bumpers - an inch thicker! I have a 14.5" shock on the 16.5" mount. I built it a steel hat to extend the length of the shock and lower my ride height a few cm. Hat bolts to shock, mount bolts to hat.
shock hat
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pupony is on the same page as I.

I am not looking for a softer/more comfortable ride. Im looking to increase the rear/front height ratio. I want to be able to lean forward more. Right now the height is just slightly awkward and hurts my back on aggressive riding.

Right now my 16.5" showa (2nd gen recall?) is completely shortened... I have maximum preload, and the highest swingarm angle avail. with this shock length. I dont want to limit uptravel at all either... if there is a downtravel bumper I don't know about, then thats another story.

I have a feeling with the 14.5" showa extended all the way it would come about 3/4-1" shorter than my fully compressed 16.5.... that could come close to raising the appropriate height.

On a side note I'm currently building a set of high offset risers to bring the bars closer in to me. After riding a Ducati Streetfighter I'm convinced this is a superior position.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Harleyelf
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm just saying you can't put a shock with 4" of travel 5" from its stops. It'll break when you come to a hard landing. The downtravel limit is set by the effective length of the shock.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

01x1buell
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

well i kind of have a similiar question,, i would also like to raise the tail of my bike but i have the stock front end
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Harleyelf
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 08:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You could get the old style front shock mount and put a new style shock on it, with a shorter hat than mine uses. Just remember not to ask it to travel farther than it was designed to.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It will still travel the same distance, the issue is not uptravel. I am not turning my buell into a dirtbike... nor am I increasing the load on it. I am just pulling the swing arm mount further forward.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Harleyelf
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Understood. Mount forward, axle down. Rubber pads on frame determine bottom-out length of extended shock. An inch of mount movement will translate to three inches of axle movement. If you try to bottom out three inches away from the rubber stoppers you will rip the piston out of the shock. I didn't lower my bike for comfort, I did it so I could reach the ground with both feet.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 11:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ah... So thats the information i was looking forward. 1" forward of link movement translates to 3" of axle movement. I was expecting closer to a 1":2"


However I still dont know where the rubber bottom out pads are your talking about.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Harleyelf
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Under the seat. When you load up the rear suspension by landing hard after a jump or riding double and hitting a dip in the road, sometimes you can feel the swing arm hit the frame. It's actually hitting the rubber bumpers. The swing arm will still be free to travel all the way to the frame if you move the mount forward, it just might not have enough piston travel. If you bottom out against the shock cap instead of the frame the cap might fail. The exact ratio of mount movement to axle movement can be figured by measuring the distance the axle is behind the fulcrum point and the distance the shock mount bolt is below the fulcrum. 1 to 3 was an approximation based on how far I had to move the mount point on my shock's hat to get a 2 cm drop in ride height.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 12:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmm... so your saying the bump stop is adjustable... hence... removable? I have never seen anything like this on my bike and I have had it down to bare frame. Someone must have removed it.


Does anyone have a 14.5" shock that is off the bike, so an exact measurement can be taken of fully extended? I might just weld up a mock drag bar that will show me exactly how high it will raise the bike. And see how a buell hard tail would ride. LoL
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Xl1200r
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 01:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd guess the same as elf - 1" in shock difference will equate to about 3" in ride height. I would guess that the 14.5" shock will change the ride height too drastically for what you're trying to do. Furthermore, if you have the preload backed all the way out, you're sag is going to be way off and you'll be limiting the upward movement of the wheel - in addition to what is being said about any stops on the frame from downward wheel travel, I think you'll more likely find yourself hitting the bump stops internal to the shock without much upward wheel travel to show for it. In the end you'll have a sub-par shock set up incorrectly for your weight and with limited wheel travel. You will gain the ride height you're looking for (assuming it's not overcorrected, I fear it would be), but you will essentially be loosing out on everything else in the suspension.

Also, worth keeping in mind that the further from in-line the rear axle is to the pivot point and front pulley, the looser the belt will be.

I think your best bet would be lowering the front and/or going with a penske.

***EDIT*** looks like elf was saying what I was saying. Bottom line is the bump stops on your frame won't be the limiting factor, especially with a raised ride height. The limiting factor will be overextending the shock itself.

(Message edited by xl1200r on December 17, 2011)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 03:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I get what you are saying.. I understand these are all factors. I was just wondering if anyone has done it/ thought about it. So I guess I could give it a try, but your right, after looking at the swing arm, the fulcum lengths are just not close enough...

As for the belt being too loose... that is not a problem on my bike....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

V74
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 10:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

1" of shock mounting difference will change ride height by 2",
i got a west tech lowering front shock mount(designed for the long shock)with the intention of putting that on to raise rear ride height with the shorter/later shock,but never got round to it,i now think it would have caused some swingarm to swingarm mount interference???
i went with a AST rear shock which seems to have raised the rear slightly but it do,s have a lot stiffer spring on it than the stock one,
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

is the AST rear shock the one that sells on ebay?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brother_in_buells
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 01:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This are the AST shocks for buells
http://shop.textalk.se/en/artgrp.php?id=20970&grp= 779127
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

ah. I see. This is the one I was thinking of...


What seems to be the best bang for the buck these days? Converting the dollar to euro for the AST seems to be a losing situation...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buell-rear-pull-shock-Ultr aSport-build-order-3-way-adjustable-ACR-Rez-/27082 1748071?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&h ash=item3f0e3bed67#ht_1840wt_952
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 09:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Damn.... I was outbid on a brand new m2L shock on ebay....


Anyone have a spare M2 LOW rear shock laying around?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Snowbees
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 04:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Someday
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 09:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Snowbees,
That's a pretty neat idea you got going there, how's it holding up? Any problems or modifications you'd make to it?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Snowbees
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

no problems at all, and no mods. Works well with over an inch of adjustment.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2011 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oooooh man. Now THAT is what I'm tlaking about! I'm going to build one of those asap.


Nice nice nice.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lornce
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2012 - 11:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Buell offered a race spec front shock mount that effectively moved the mounting clevis forward to raise the rear ride height.

I found out about that after I made my own.

I cut the clevis off a stock front mount at just the right angle so that turning it around would position the eyes exactly 5/8" further forward. Then welded it.

The swingarm/shock crank ratio was almost exactly 2:1, so the 5/8" adjustment resulted in a rear ride height increase of 1-1/4".

It also steepened the rake angle and effectively reduced the trail dimension to emulate X1 chassis figures.

Steering was much sharper and cornering clearance was dramatically improved.

It was also a little twitchy at the end of Mosport's back straight. So I fitted a pair of WP Roma forks from an S2 and raised the front ride height a smidge until it became more stable in a straight line. But not too far so as to compromise the geometry changes I'd worked so hard to realise. : D

Don't try this at home. Unless you're a capable fabricator/welder.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rick_a
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2012 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have one of the old Buell Race Dept. mounts on my 16.5" shock. It raised the bike ~1." The bike was a little twitchy on higher speed corner exits and hard on the brakes. I did like the early tuber Pro Thunder guys and lengthened the swingarm 1." That inch made a dramatic difference and has left the bike in what I believe to be an ideal set-up. It was a lot of work and it took about a year of messing around to get the suspension working the way I wanted it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Foximus
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2012 - 02:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Damn. Where did you guys get the Race mount?

Any pictures of it close up?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rick_a
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2012 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Buell had a race department under the motor company. When I got my parts (screen, belly pan, shock mount, caliper adapter, and rear sets) I spoke with Henry Duga directly. He had to make some parts himself as nobody had asked for any tuber race parts for some time.

It's definitely nothing fancy
but gets the job done.
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration