G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Forum » Old School Buell » Archive through July 09, 2011 » Helicoil safe for front iso mount ?? HELP !!!! « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Clyde_the_ape
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 09:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Was putting some grade 8 bolts in my front iso mount, so I could move the bike around the shop, the bolts went in ok, but then just kept turning & never got tight. Ran a chaser & pulled out what looks like an old helicoil. Is it safe to put a new helicoil in the head??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Preybird1
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have used them before on the exhaust stud but never on the head. I am sure you could try it. try these guys out for repairs.

http://www.timesert.com/
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Clyde_the_ape
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ouch those things are crazy expensive. $80.00 for one size kit & that was before shipping
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Preybird1
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

if it ends up at a HD dealer they wont fix that. they will replace it. try cycle rama inc.
http://www.cycle-rama.com/

Oldog and other badwebbers swear by these guys. They will fill the hole and drill it and re-tap it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Oldog
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Get it welded up and re machined
you may fail that head other wise...

YMMV
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Psykick_machanik
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 02:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

i agree with Oldog.
the helicoil threads arnt long enough to match the mount bolt fully, putting to much force in a smaller area. the aluminum threads in the head would fail before to long.
iv had my head welded up, drilled and tapped with no problems at all. didnt cost much either.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 04:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Can't you just put two heli-coils in the one hole? That's what I did to repair one of my side bag mounts when it was stripped out of the subframe by a careless Toyota driver.

When I have seen a heli-coil fail, it didn't roll or anything, it just ripped out the aluminum like a bolt would have done. That makes me think they are just as strong as the bolt would be... provided you have enough thread engagement surface.

But I would never be confused with a mechanical engineer... : )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Oldog
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

the aluminum is thin to start with and you are going to make it thinner with a helicoil
and you do need all of the threads present to develop maximum strength, this is one time a patch is not really a good idea.

bear in mind the bolts are trying to apply a clamp load to the mount
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gmaan03
Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Being a machinist, I have heli-coiled many alum parts. You should be able to get the correct length, and not use two(BAD)! Agree welding would be the best fix. A heli-coil will produce a stronger thread, but like Oldog said, side load might shear the alum casting if it is too thin. Oh by the way usually 2x the diameter of the bolt is all you need for maximum strength(tensile) as the bolt is seated onto the face some of the clamping force will be AXIAL, this is where it might fail.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 01:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Got it, thanks Jim and Gmaan03. Agreed, if the sides of the hole are too thin to support the new bigger hole, then it's broken.

I use that "2x bolt diameter to be stronger than the bolt" rule all the time, perhaps not universal, but a very useful rule of thumb.

Gmaan03, why are two heli-coils in one hole bad? Or is it just overkill, because one heli-coil is already 2x the diameter, so you already have a hole stronger than the bolt with just one?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fast1075
Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pull the head and sent it to Pammy and Wes at Cycle Rama...it will come back in better shape than new...Pull both heads and have the valve job touched up and some of their double trick valve guide seals while they are in there...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Oldog
Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 03:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fast1075 + 2

consider a side of porting with those heads
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gmaan03
Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 04:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

using two will work but you might as well get the correct lenght. Besides if you install one and one on top of the other to create the desired lenght, some times you create a burr from not removing the tang properly. The Burr will gall up the screw you are trying to install. I know I did it once on a machining fixture.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Gmaan, that's useful information. Thanks for sharing your experience!

The great thing about sending heads to Wes and Pammy is that it doesn't really matter what the problem was, it's a great solution regardless. : )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mtjm2
Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 04:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would have to agree with Fast1075 . Why risk it , do it rite .
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration