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Scott_in_nh
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

As some of you know I finally broke an exhaust stud 2 weeks ago drag racing.

The update is that I could not get the stud out.

I purchased a reverse flute stud extractor from grainger that was a waste of $14 plus shipping as the tip broke off at low rpm with no force behind it. I may still ask for my money back as they are junk.

Luckily since it was really nothing more than a left handed drill bit with straight flutes, the broke tip came right out with nothing more than poking with a screwdriver.

Next I drilled it out further and tried an extractor (not easy out).

It bit well but I could tell that it was going to break before the stud was going to release so I stopped without trying more force (there is a lesson there for some of you guys!).

Next I borrowed the Jim's tool from Duceater and drilled the hole out with a 0.25" bit.

This worked great, but there was still enough stud left intact that it would not come out even with an extractor.

so I continued to slowly and carefully ream the hole until I could see thee threads showing thru.

I still could not get what was left out so I borrowed a starting tap (tapered) and a straight tap.

The hope was that the tapered tap would catch the existing threads and not cross thread new ones.

This worked as each single turn of stud thread would snap off on the tap.

I would back the tap out, remove the single turn of steel stud thread and do it again until no more were left.

Then I cleaned the hole with the straight tap and PB Blaster.

The new SS studs went in with a graphite lubricant (good for over 800F compared to 450F for high temp Loctite) to insure proper torquing and hopefully prevent galling.





I always have project creep when I have stuff apart and this repair was no different.

I did not like the stock exhaust flanges because the chrome flakes away and they rust.





I did a search for SS flanges and came up with nothing.

A thread on a different forum said that the XB flanges are aluminum so I ordered them along with new gaskets a clips from Tripp.

When I received them they were heavy enough that I could tell that they were not aluminum.

So I had our QC department Niton test them and found them to be 304 SS!

They are also much thicker which led me to wonder if the stud issue with tubers is related to an issue with the HD flanges?

since they are SS I went ahead and polished them and am very happy that they will never rust!





I have installed the exhaust system and torqued per Lafeyettes method, run and retorqued.

Luckily the new studs are just long enough for the thicker flanges!

They have already turned that gold color SS turns to when heated but look really great!

The installed picture I took did not come out good so it will have to wait until the weekend.

If/when you face this problem I would suggest saving time and money buy jumping right to a borrowed Jim's tool and a reverse flute drill bit (if you have any hope that it will loosen) or a standard drill bit and tapered tap.
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Buellbozo
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Glad to hear of your happy ending.

If i ever break one of mine, I'm headed straight to a machine shop with a ram type EDM (Electrical Discharge Machine).

Some of these are now so common, they're called "tap burners". About 15 minutes, and shazzam...nothing left but the perfect original female thread.

Try it! You'll love it.
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Fasted
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

although i am always pleased and excited to complete a project, i have never concluded with a happy ending.....it usually costs extra.
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Scott_in_nh
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 03:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If i ever break one of mine, I'm headed straight to a machine shop with a ram type EDM (Electrical Discharge Machine).


knowing what I know now - if that is cost effective and can be done while you wait I would have to agree.
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My exhaust stud broke off flush with the front head last month. I bought the Jim's tool from Al American Sport Bike.

The Jim's tool fixed me right up, NO Extractor. I drilled out the stud right to the minor diameter of the threaded hole in the head.

Then I got to chase the head threads with a tap 5/16-18 NC. Tip: Blast it with compressed air prior to tapping if you can and using cutting oil

Work slowly and carefully. Use oil on the drill, preferably cutting oil.

It was relatively straight forward with the Jim's tool, it worked very fine.

That's it.

Regards.
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Scott_in_nh;
Are SS studs the same as the original studs?
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Jramsey
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 08:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

EDM is great if the head is off the bike.

Haven't seen a shop yet that can get the complete bike on the table.

Good job, well done Scott.
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Scott_in_nh
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

EDM is great if the head is off the bike.

Ah - that changes everything!

It was relatively straight forward with the Jim's tool, it worked very fine.

Agreed, that was my point - I wish I started with the Jim's tool and tap.

Are SS studs the same as the original studs?

No, after reading about the continued failures some of you guys had I wanted a better solution that did not require removing the heads.

Those are ARP SS studs advertised as "ARP grade 8 stainless bolts, studs, and nuts are virtually impervious to rust and corrosion. Rated at 170,000 psi makes these stronger than regular grade 8 fasteners. These are maintenance free fasteners and come with a polished finish."


Good job, well done Scott.

thanks : ]
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Buellisticx1
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 08:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ok thanks,
Can you tell me where get them?. And the the stud size?

Thanks in advanced
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Blks1l
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 12:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You might check into using the graphite lubricant and it causing corrosion with the aluminum. I work on turbine engines and we are taught not to use pencils for marking any internal engine parts because of the corrosion that can start from the pencil mark. There are better graphite free choices, which are a moly dissulfide based probably not the right spelling.
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X1_rider
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 06:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I would like to know more about the studs as well. The brand, size, where you got them, part number if possible, and the correct method of installing them as well if you can.
I've broken everything else that connects my Force exhaust to the bike, I figure the studs are next to go. Nothing wrong with a little prevention.
Thanks in advance.
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Scott_in_nh
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 09:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Alloy Boltz

Have a look around, but be warned, they have polished SS bolts for everything you own!

If you just search "exhaust stud" you will find their HD kit, apparently one size fits all.

They are a veteran/woman owned business with great service.

Considering they mail them the shipping is a little steep, but I just look at the total cost and decide from there.

I also bought their rear pulley bolt kit to jazz up my machined and polished pulley and will be purchasing their allen bolt engine kit to get rid of all those engine bolts that love to turn powdery white.
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X1_rider
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 09:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

great, thanks!
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Scott_in_nh
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 09:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blks1l
I had a hard time finding something compatible with aluminum and SS that can stand the temperature.

HT loctite was one suggestion, but it may not have lasted (450F) and when these heads do come off they are getting a stage II port job and I assume that the exhaust studs would be removed for the machining process (and I did not want my studs ruined because they would not come out).

Everyone agreed that anti-sieze with copper was a bad idea, anti-sieze with nickel probably would be a good choice, but I could not find it locally and the bike was going back together.

I had the graphite spray on the shelf, it is good to something like 850F, it lubricated the studs allowing for proper torque values and should not react with the aluminum/SS combination (as far as my research would find).

Comment from a metallurgist:

Graphite is not corrosive in itself towards aluminum, but in the presence of chloride ions (such as from sea-water or marine atmosphere) it can cause galvanic (bimetallic) corrosion to occur.

Your suggestion may very well be better, but the mil spec is specific to thick film lubricants and is probably rooted in a different concern:

Solid Film Lubricant Coatings use primarily molybdenum Disulfide for lubrication. Every military spec for solid film lubricants must be certified as graphite free. Graphite is also soft and does not provide heavy load lubrication.


So pick your poison as a perfect solution appears to be allusive!
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Daveswan
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 02:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have the same flanges and SS studs and used this product. Bought it right from the manufacture online. Here's the abbreviated specs:

Never Seez® Heavy Metal Free Anti-Seize
High temperature and extreme pressure lubricant containing graphite, calcium fluoride and other additives in a special grease carrier found to enhance anti-seize performance.

Has no "dropping point" - will not melt.
Compatible with soft metals.
Low Torque Factor.
Excellent heat dispersing qualities.
Minimizes corrosion.
Prevents seizure at high temperatures.
Resists galvanic action between dissimilar metals.
Enables fast disassembly, even after high temp exposure.
Prevents galling.
Applications:

Fasteners, nuts, bolts and screws exposed to high temperatures in power plants, chemical plants, oil refineries, aerospace manufacturing and service.
Stainless steel pipe fittings, flanges, pump fittings.
Fasteners in exhaust manifolds and boilers.
Steam generators.
Assembly of dissimilar metals.
Temperature Range: -20°F to 2450°F
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Scott_in_nh
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I have the same flanges and SS studs

great minds think alike!


It's
too late for me but I am sure others will appreciate the Never Seez info.
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Daveswan
Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

and now for the rest of the story... last year I shot Trippy and email with a link and picture and said "I want these XB flanges, can you get em?" and he never saw them before and the XBs in the store had the chrome HD flanges. Then he found the part number sort-of separate from everything else as an alternative. Then low and behold, we all have them! at least the 3 of us.
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Cyclonecharlie
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2010 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well just got my "Alloy Boltz" exhaust studs and nuts, also the SS bolts for the intake. Really top quality looking stuff. Now I need to find some of those XB flanges and some "never-seez"and I'll have my next project lined up. thanks for all the info.
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Scott_in_nh
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2010 - 08:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

With the XB flanges there are few to no extra threads showing on the ARP studs.

With that in mind I recommend that you retorque within the 1st ten miles are so - no point losing your brand new shiny nuts!
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Sdecp
Posted on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 06:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I am about to do this upgrade. Does anyone recommend a specific gasket or are the OEM gaskets fine?

Scott: Do you recommend trying to find longer bolts?
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