| Author | Message | ||
     Oldog |
Steve: back up a couple of steps. did i get earlier no fuel pressure? at the test port? if that is yes and the pump is not running the pump can be checked with jumpers, the ecm has a transistor or the like that turns the pump on and off with the timing cup. lets see the pump connector is square with keys on one side, from the harnes side ( pump wires not shown in fsm ) low fuel light is yellow / red, (a) its ground is black, the pump is powered by brown / yellow(c) and grounds on a grey (d) these are from the main harness side there is also a latch that will help you figure out abcd c d are the pump put +12 on the pin (pump connector) that matched brown yellow, and ground on grey, pump should run ecm is bypassed, at power up brown yellow gets power from the ecm ( main harness ) a load resistor may be needed as the transistor may "leak" and show 12v all of the time when on the current goes up to the 3 or 4 amps that the pump draws. ecm ground at ecm socket pin 1, ecm power to pump pin 3 black connector. check the wires in the socket. | ||
| Oldog |
I would try by passing the ecm by disconnecting the pump and then test wiring the pump directly, being careful not the short the low fuel sensor out on +12 I have never tried to bypass the bank angle sensor ( tip over ) If you get a check engine light at power on relay is ok probably, the diodes apply to the starter circuit there is no fuse in the pump circuit from the ecm. the tps and the engine position sensor are powered by the ecm, if the eps is not powered it "should code", I assume that the bas is reinstalled where it goes under the seat frame, (Message edited by oldog on September 08, 2010) | ||
| Stevegula |
Fuel pump is never priming. I haven't pulled any injectors yet to see if they're spraying at all. That's on the "next to do" list. If I push in the Schraeder valve fuel comes out. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
It sounds like something is unplugged to me. | ||
| Azrael_cervale |
The Diodes are easy to check with a multimeter, You should get little to no resistance (ohms) with the probes connected one way and very high resistance or open with the probes reversed, A diode only lets electricity flow in one direction. I think the first thing you should do is hot wire 12 volts to the pump and see if it will actually come on, if not it's bad. | ||
| Stevegula |
All I'm getting are sparks at the ground. | ||
| Stevegula |
and to note - i hooked brown/yellow to + on the battery and tried grey on the frame and - on the battery.. both just threw sparks. | ||
| Oldog |
Steve: ok you bypassed the ecm by unplugging the pump/sender and when you connected you got sparks no prime, bad pump fuel will run thru the pump and out of the valve, | ||
| Stevegula |
should the pump still try to prime in an empty tank or out of a tank? I tried with my old pump too, that's why I ask | ||
| Oldog |
Steve: I would not run the pump dry but the pump shoud run when powered if one was good at one time, and has set it may be gummed up when connected to 12vdc the pumps' motor should run and if submerged be pumping fuel it will draw about 3~4 amps at 12~14vdc when repriming it will squeal as the air is forced out, I am not sure how the unit is built my guess is plastic gears with a spring and diaphragm bypass pressure regulator as you do not want to stall a gear pump, but if you submerge the intake end and the discharge line is open it will prime, easily the pump is capable of 45 psi some where I read 70 lph (liters per hour,) (about 18 gph or .3 gpm) | ||
| Oldog |
it should run if powered, I wonder if the thing locked up and burnt the ecm output I am a little dubious on this so YMMV connect a 12v light bulb ( not a head light ) to the harness on the brown yello pump line and ground the other side, see if it lights at power on. if so ecm is probably ok, you may be on all the time (dim) and brighten when initialy with run sw on. ( power up prime ) | ||
| Stevegula |
OOoh.. new info! If I press my ear to the tank when I turn on the ignition I hear a pop/thunk.. my old pump does this too when I feed it power.. I'm not getting the whine of a pump priming but it's definitely doing something. | ||
| Oldog |
pop thunk... does not sound good, is gas in the tank? if so bad pump... normal squeeeeeeeeeeeee (going up in pitch over time with the motor hummmmmm sound | ||
| Stevegula |
I think I'm doing this right.. but I measured 10v on yellow/red and grey ... not brown/yellow. | ||
| Stevegula |
Is it possible it'd only pop/thunk (re: turn on but not build pressure) if the bank angle sensor or something else is bad? | ||
| Oldog |
10v sounds like a low batter, steve power either of the pumps by jumper if they dont make the normal hummmmmm squeeeee then the pump is likely an issue yes the bas can effect the bike cycle the key and try again if you get pop thunk pump problem of some kind, the regulator is serviceable, the pump is not. I have never heard any thing other than hummm whoosh, or hummmmm squeeeeee pop sounds like partial rotation or catching parts, there is a fabric screen in the tank that could get drawn in it servs as an inlet strainer if you are hearing pop thunk with either pump at power on its the punps... | ||
| Stevegula |
What do you mean power by jumper? | ||
| Oldog |
disconnect the pump from the system wiring harness and use 2 wires to power and ground the pump motor, with the fuel system hooked up. the pump should make the hummmmm with a whoosh sound,if connected to a closed system then shut off, when you lift a wire it will spark as you touch the wires to the connector points, but the wires if about the same size as the harness lines should be ok unless shorted the motor pulls about 3~4 amps normaly | ||
| Stevegula |
Power both pins? brown/yellow and yellow red? that I have not been doing. | ||
| Stevegula |
I took off the subframe and pulled the fusebox. Really impressed with how Buell attached the rear brake fluid reservoir up there, that's a total inconvenience. I'm seeing nothing wrong with any wires. I pulled the headlight fairing, saw nothing wrong with any wires up there. Wires behind the ignition are getting super hot (too hot to hold for more than a minute). Getting really close to just going carb on this thing. | ||
| Oldog |
from my earlier post c d are the pump put +12 on the pin (pump connector) that matched brown yellow, and ground on grey, the other 2 are the low fuel sensor if you short it it will burn out. the hot wires are on the key switch? or is the key hot? other wires that get hot mean other problems, lets sort the fuel pump, the pump is about 100$ a clean carb setup will set you back over 400$, and will require a wiring rework and mechanical work as well, its good that the wires are ok, a lot of extra work to sort out a no start problem, as I said earlier, if the cel is comming on and you are getting spark the ecm and other systems are probably ok, there is no fues between the ecm and the fuel pump the ignition fuse covers the ecm. | ||
| Stevegula |
ordered the diagnostic cable from American Sport Bike.. should be here by the end of the week and ordered an OEM replacement fuel pump. If I remember back to when I first tried to run the fuel pump by powering it from the battery, I'm 99.9% sure I would have shorted the low fuel sensor. I never would have guessed a low fuel sensor means a dead pump though. The wires that run to the key switch are hot (temperature wise). | ||
| Oldog |
Steve: the sensor failing just means that your low fuel light does not work any more. the pump is still likely suspect. the cable will help you sort it out. call Al you need a key switch, my oe failed at 10k miles. | ||
| Stevegula |
I got my OEM pump replacement. Just need to get it into the assembly. It spins when power is applied to it, unlike the others, so that's a good sign. Now, if I put this in the assembly, it's not going to have any issues with the ECM since the fuel level sensor is busted, right? That's my main concern before trying to pull this off. Al the guy at American Sport Bike? Will a key cost me money? | ||
| Stevegula |
Pump is in the old assembly. Not hooking it up to the ECM until you give me the OK. :-) It's also not in the tank. I hacked the wires on the one it's in so I could play with it and the multimeter and stuff and figure out what was going on. The one I intend to use is in the tank and I still need to drain the tank and pull the pump. | ||
| Stevegula |
got ECMSpy up and running... didn't require a key. Trouble code 15- Intake air sensor shorted to supply voltage or open ... not sure where intake air sensor is to check this Trouble code 44 - BAS shorted or open I cleared the trouble codes and those two came back. BAS could be because I tried myself to bypass it. I'll reconnect things as they ought to be to see if it won't clear and stay clear.. although I don't care if I ever have a working BAS so whatever I need to do to get the ECM to ignore it will likely be my next step. Thoughts on air sensor issue? I don't want to hook up my new fuel pump until I get the error codes to go away. | ||
| Desertfox |
Intake Air Sensor is in the right side of the large black powder coated fairing. You can probably find pictures of it. My bike has the 15 code and doesn't appear to actually have any sensor issues (from what I can tell). I have heard that other problems (battery related) can trip random untrue codes, so be aware. | ||
| Nallac |
you can Disable the BAS with ECM Spy. Edit;Just reread your original post,your symtoms are the same as what i had when my BAS went. Just swapped in a New(to me) ECU and my fuel pump would only half prime,and bike wouldn't start.Remembered i hadn't disabled the BAS,As soon as i did it bike fired up. (Message edited by nallac on September 17, 2010) | ||
| Stevegula |
pulled the tank and pulled the fuel pump to replace it.. it is rusted beyond belief.. I'm beginning to think the reason the first pump died is because water had gotten into the tank and shorted everything.. and when I drained the tank (which was only enough to get the pump in) there was still water and it killed that one.. except this time it's sat for a year and it's fully rusted.. which brings me to the next problem - the tank is full of rust.. it's a plastic tank so I'm not against washing it out with water.. but I've never been able to get the takn fully empty because none of the holes are at places where that's possible by pouring.. and the pumps/hoses I've used to try to suck the gas out always pig tail and prevent me from getting what's left... any thoughts on how to clean this out and make sure it's 100% dry /before/ putting in the new pump? | ||
| Snowbees |
with the fuel cap base removed someone with small hands should get in there with a cloth after a rinse with fuel |
