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Dieseldreamer
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 02:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hello,

First time poster, long time lurker. So I like my blast and I plan to customize it once the girlfriend finises learning on it but I want something just for me.

I was thinking once I get back from the Navy I will buy a HIGH MILEAGE S1, restore anything it needs, and down the road try to customize it. I love the look of the bike but I also know very little about the bike.

Though the production run is less than 5000 units, what changed through out these few short years?

What are things to look out for when buying a high mileage bike? (By 'high mileage' I mean 15K plus miles)

What is the market price wise for a bike this? I'm seeing as low as $2,500 to $4,000...

Aside from the white lightning, are there any other special models out there?

The reason I want a high mile bike is because I literally (and I truly mean this) would feel bad for racking up a low mile bike. They are rare bikes and I would love restoring something on my own.

I hope to here from anyone with knowledge of these bikes.
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Rjn
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 05:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

if you want to restore the bike, does it really mather in what condition it is in or how many miles it run????
Just tear it apart, and restore / improve / customize anything it needs or how you like it.

I would go in your case for a cheap high milage S1 and spend the rest off your money on new / better parts.

Or spend more money on a mint condition one and just ride the crap out of it for the first couple off years and enjoy it.
There a couple of stunners in the classifieds !!!!



but thats just my opinion !!
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Bluzm2
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Go for a 1998 S1W if you can find it. Unless of course you like the look of the smaller peanut tank..
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Dieseldreamer
Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2010 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Bluuzm2 - So what really changed through out the years of the S1 Lightning? Peanut tank vs what?

RJN - I wanna be able to ride it. I think when I say restore I mean piece by piece not so much basket case with two wheels. I want to be able to improve it over time and finally tear into the engine/tran over a winter season.

Erik
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Ratbuell
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 01:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

S1, 96-98: Lightning motor, mild cams, small peanut tank, twintail seat setup. 91hp / 86 lb-ft.

S1W, 1998 only. Manta (5 gal) tank. Euro solo tailsection, no passenger pegs. Thunderstorm engine, 101hp / 90lb-ft. Limited color selections (4 frame, 4 body colors). Giveaway is a YS in the VIN and black cylinder heads (thunderstorm heads).

Any year, an S1 is an S1 with only color changes. S1W was the only change. X1 replaced the S1 in '99, bringing EFI to the Lightning model.
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Dieseldreamer
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 02:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ratbuell thanks for the reply buddy.

What is the thunderstorm motor compared to what the standard S1 has?

Did the X1 get a thunderstorm motor?

I believe the XB motors had different heads. Though I'm not sure...

I'm not sure if I have my information down correct.

Thanks again for your help and reply!

Erik

(Message edited by dieseldreamer on August 01, 2010)
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Sportyeric
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 03:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'll answer that cause I like your name, though you've spelled it wrong. I'd say, go for the bike with lower miles. Less stuff worn out and the price doesn't vary that much. 15K is not high mileage. 50K is. In fact, a bike with less than 15K at that age will have issues from sitting unused.

The Thunderstorm engine had different heads and pistons and a larger exhaust. That package produced ten more horse at the crank. It was on the S1W and the X1. The XB heads produce slightly more but don't fit without a rather expensive front mounting bracket. I'd say choose your ride from the style of the frame. I like the S1 more than the X1, personally. Then either live with the stock heads or spend a bit to up-grade. Either way is good, but start with the chassis you like.
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Phelan
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 03:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yes, the XBs have a different head that has larger fins and different ports and valves. The X1s got the same thunderstorm motor but with DDFI instead of a carb. The thunderstorm motor has 2lb lighter flywheels, .497 lift cams, thunderstorm heads, and 10:1 CR pistons with a 15* squish band, whereas the earlier S1s had 10:1 CR flat top pistons with lightning heads and .48x lift cams (I believe .480), and standard sportster flywheels. As Joe said, the only special model S1 was the '98 S1W, which had higher prduction numbers than the standard '98 S1.
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Phelan
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 03:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I just saw Eric's post. Great info from the Canadian. I forgot to mention the exhaust. The S1 had a 2" collector on the header and the S1W had a 2.5" collector. As Eric said, 15K is not high mileage. My S2 has 50K and Eric's has I think around 75K. None of them really keep collector value because other than a small handful of people are using them for thei intended purpose- riding. A lower mileage unit will have less wrong with it save the gaskets. All the tubers came with the Harley paper gaskets which are crap. Once you replace those and a couple other things they can run forever practically.
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Dieseldreamer
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 06:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Wow... this a great load of information SportyEric and Phelan! Thank you. So realistically could one buy and build a motor from NRHS and swap it in into the S1 frame with littler to know problem?

Honestly I would love to have a 11:1 compression motor running on E85. I would have to get a custom stainless steal tank and stainless lines, put over sized jets in, and remove any rubber that maybe in contact with the fuel.

Right now this is dream like for sure; however, if I'm going to dream I wanna dream big. I think its feasible with the know how and the support of a few good people. Money doesn't hurt ether!

Thanks again guys and any future input is appreciated well in advance!

Erik
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Ratbuell
Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

11:1 is going to be awfully high on an aircooled mill. Any ambient heat at all, and you're gonna be in ping-central.

All the information above is absolutely correct, it was just late when I posted and I forgot to mention a lot of the details : )

For comparison - I have a stock S1W, and an S2 that I put a Thunderstorm top end in (including X1 cams). I have to ride each one differently because of the heavy flywheel/light flywheel difference - the S2 carries its revs much longer into the shift due to inertia - but power-wise they're pretty darned equal. Lots of people either Thunderstorm their engines, or put the XB heads on (as noted, with a special front mount). I'm happy enough with the T-storm stuff on my tubers.

One suggestion, though - ride one first. For at least 30 minutes. S1's are not for everyone. I believe even "the" Erik (Buell) has been quoted in the past as calling the S1 seat a "one-cheek-seat". But if you want a good vid, check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW8tAKG4rr0

Courtesy of our very own eButch...a very cool vintage tuber vid.
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Dieseldreamer
Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 02:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ratbuell thanks again for another post. 11:1 compression would be no problem for an E85 bike. Not only is it a 103-105 octane but ethanol itself carries an oxygen molecule with it.
This does two things for the engine. 1) It aids combustion to be more complete and 2) because of this it allows the bike to run cooler.

Nevertheless, there is no doubt in my mind that 100 degree track days would certainly make this bike not work at its peak performance. So with that said, the high(er) compression will allow me to run the fuel to its fullest potential while allowing the fuel mileage loss to be minimal.

I don't know what the gas tanks are made of and I know I would need to replace rubber hoses with stainless steel ones and even the petcock would need to be swapped out for a metal one. Not to mention any rubber found in the carb would have to be swapped out as well. So not only am I dreaming at this point but I would need parts sourced out and money to back it (obviously).

Lighter flywheels make a big difference when applied to performance cars and honestly bikes are really no exception. That is cool how you can tell the difference between the two bikes based on the flywheel weight alone. Light flywheels allow the revs to move back and fourth more freely from what I'm told.

I think if I had to go all out, XB heads would be where its at. However, when I get an S1 next year it will remain fairly stock for a few years as I would like to acquire another bike after that so I can still ride while working on this one.

These are truly amazing machines! From the X1 to the 1125R/CR, I think it is fair to say this bikes would not have been possible without the grass roots of the bikes like the S1/S2 chassis.

Thanks again and sorry for the rant!

Erik

P.S. Thanks for the vid, when I played it my girlfriend was like are you watching porn?!
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