G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Forum » Old School Buell » Archive through May 02, 2010 » Intake manifold bolts SUCK « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_b
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Tried for 2 hours to get my hex head intake manifold bolts out. Using a #6 metric hex wrench, just could not do it. A friend and fellow bad web member p47 suggested cutting down the nex wrench to where it fit into the bolts and could still get a wrench on the end .. DUH, i can't beleive it ws so simple. Had all four bolts out in 10 minutes. thanks william
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Natexlh1000
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I thought it was .25" not metric?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Easy_rider
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 09:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

A 6 mm with a contoured end worked best for me. May not have been the right tool, but it worked.

(Message edited by Easy_Rider on April 14, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_b
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 09:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

#6, 1/4" whatever. the point is the tip a fellow badwebber gave me to cut one down to work instead of buying a special wrench.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fahren
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"to where it fit into the bolts and could still get a wrench on the end."

Edit: it's the next morning, and I'm better at understanding what people write than at night. Got it. You can do this for a mini tool kit, too, with a small open end wrench that fits the base of a set of torx, allen and other bits.

(Message edited by fahren on April 15, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Buellistic
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 10:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

And if you use a double box end wrench you can TORQUE the allen head bolts correctly !!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

F_skinner
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Tom, I just did mine. I had a feeling the originals were in the 96 S2T. They were and fell apart when I took them out. I use a tool that I got from American Sportbike and one I made just as you described. Next to forks that is one of my least favorite things to do.

Now, I need to rebuild the carb and hope the manifold sealed good.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fahren
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Please forgive my ignorance on this, but how can you torque anything correctly when you don't have your torque wrench fixed on the bolt in question, directly?
I don't see how extending the lever arm with a double box end would help...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Preybird1
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 10:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

He means using the wrench as a cheater bar, Using the closed end of a box wrench over the Allen wrench.

I bought the actual intake tool from Al @ American Sport Bike it works very well actually. But when i can't find it, i just cut off an Allen wrench.

http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline/ccp0-p rodshow/5029.html
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

F_skinner
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 10:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Preybird1, that is the tool. Works great of the S1 but the S2 frame seems to get in the way of one bolt...

I guess I do not torque them correctly. I just turn till it stops.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

P47b
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 11:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Maybe I'm not understanding your question Fahren.

ACTUAL = INDICATED x (WRENCH LENGTH + EXT. LENGTH) / WRENCH LENGTH


http://www.norbar.com/calculators/torque-wrench-ex tension-calculator.aspx
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Buellistic
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 11:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Fahren:

As long as the box end wrench is 90 degree's to the torque wrench you will get the correct torque ...

This is how you torque bolts or nuts in hard to reach places ...

You go to a mom & pop hard ware store and buy what looks like a long nut which fits in the other end of the box wrench and a socket will fit on whats left with a torque wrench ...

Have more questions on how to use a torque wrench, fee free to ask ...

P.S. "i" have yet to run into an application where "i" could not maintain the 90 degree's to where "i" had to makea big math problem out a simple torque'ing situation ...

(Message edited by buellistic on April 14, 2010)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pkforbes87
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 03:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I've never put a torque wrench on intake manifold or the couple of rocker cover bolts that are hard to use. Other than that, I think every bolt, nut, and screw on the bike is torqued to spec.

I've never heard the 90* angle thing though. Guess from now on I'll be able to torque everything to spec..
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Buellistic
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 03:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Pkfores87:

To TORQUE your intake manifold allen bolts and the rocker arm cover allen screws, one has to improvise the tools to do so ...

No body ever thinks about reverse torque'ing(1/4 turn evenly in a proper pattern) when removing a cam cover, a primary cover, or a rocker arm cover ...

Why you ask, well you can distort the cover removing it just as easy as improperly torque'ing said cover ...

The FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL gives you TORQUE SPECIFICATIONS, but does not tell you how to do it ...

Example: Say you have 5 bolts to torque to 75 foot pounds ...

What is not said is that you divide the 75 by 3 which means you first torque in a cross pattern of all at 25 foot pounds, then all at 50 foot pounds, and finishing all at 75 foot pounds ...

Other wise you will distort what ever you are torque'ing ...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kyrocket
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That, or just get your arm calibrated.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fahren
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks,guys - other than calculating torque based on my weight at a fixed distance along a breaker bar, I've never thought about torque wrench extension calculators. And I'll definitely play with your 90 degree tip, Lafayette.
Always open to learn something new!
-Chris
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Buellistic
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The BAR TORQUE WRENCH'es IMHO are the best for the wrenching we do ...

The click type have to have a calibration check ever so often depending on climate, how often used, and when dropped ...

DO NOT FORGET TO USE TORQUE'ING COMPOUND ON THE THREADS AND ANY WHERE THERE IS METAL TO METAL CONTACT IF YOU WANT THE TORQUE TO BE CORRECT ...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

P47b
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

DO NOT FORGET TO USE TORQUE'ING COMPOUND ON THE THREADS AND ANY WHERE THERE IS METAL TO METAL CONTACT IF YOU WANT THE TORQUE TO BE CORRECT ...


That is a new one on me!!!
Most torquing applications that I have dealt with are dry torque only. Unless stated with anti seize or thread lock of some sort.
Buellistic, Can you show me?
That one has got me intrigued.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Phelan
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 01:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What is torquing compound? I haven't heard off it either. I have heard that you cut the indicated tq in 1/2 if the bolt is lubricated and the tq spec calls for dry.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

P47b
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 02:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It depends.

If a lubricant is used (for example, oil, grease, anti-sieze, Loc-Tite, etc.) a table for
lubricated bolts must be used since any product that provides lubrication allows for more
bolt stretch at a given torque setting, and may result in over-stretching or breaking the
bolt.


BOLT TORQUE FACTORS
LUBRICANT OR PLATING TORQUE CHANGES
Oil Reduce torque 15% to 25%
Dry Film (Teflon or moly based) Reduce torque 50%
Dry Wax (Cetyl alcohol) Reduce torque 50%
Chrome plating No change
Cadmium plating Reduce torque 25%
Zinc plating Reduce torque 15%

Baseline torque is calculated for a non-lubricated, un-plated bolt.

http://www.raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc14.html
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Buellistic
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

P47b:

Know where you are coming from ...

When "i" was in the AIR FORCE the stuff that "i" torqued was made to be torqued dry ...

So if your specifications in what you deal with say dry torque'ing, then that is what you do ...

In our BUELL application you should use torque'ing compound, "i" even use torque'ing compound on out side nuts and bolts that the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL says use thread lock ...

"BUT" inside the engine if the specifications state thread lock "i" will use it there and even if it does not say to inside the engine/transmission ...

Phelan:

Torque'ing compound is a thread lubricant so when you use the torque specifications you will get the proper torque as in the BUELL FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL ...

The bottom line is you read the technical publications of the equipment you are working with, in our case it is the BUELL FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL ...

What "i" use is ANTI-SIZE THREAD LUBRICANT Type 13(02 Sensor Safe)HI-TEMP COPER FORMULA part number 13010 made by VersaChem Corportion, RIVIERA BEACH, Florida 33404 ...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

P47b
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Gotcha.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Guell
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 07:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I just tighten mine til i feel its tight enough, havnt had issues yet.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tom_b
Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 08:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What i meant was a 1" long peice of hex wrench that i could stab in the bolt head and use a box wrench on what is sticking out to turn it. Since clearances are soo close a socket hex is impossible and a standard hex wrench is at best VERY frustrating on 2 of them, impossible on the other 2.You guys get way to tech on some of this torque and bolt compound stuff, but good info..
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

P47b
Posted on Friday, April 16, 2010 - 10:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I take it that you haven't had a bolt get lost or broke while riding?

« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration