| Author | Message | ||
     Fuzzz |
Sorry, but this is a repost, thought I might get a response here... A while back I picked up a set of dual, 6 pistons calipers that were made for Buell by Performance Machine. They appear to be billet aluminum, anodized a dark shade of purple with the early Pegasus engraved in the face. I got them off ebay for a pretty good price, but haven’t had time to get them sorted out and installed, but while I am recovering from my heart attack and surgery, I have way too much free time, so I thought I’d try to get them ready to use, since they are so darn pretty…. I have a few questions for someone who is in the know… #1. What advantages or disadvantages are possible? #2. What size master cylinder should I use to get optimum performance? #3. Until I can afford Galfer or even EBC rotors, is it possible to use a Buell right side rotor on the left, (I have a spare) or is the direction of rotation critical to proper operation? #4. What is the true story behind these calipers? I’ve heard a story that they were available for race use, and someone put a set of them on a street bike and grabbed a handful of brake lever, locked it up, and broke the front wheel, throwing the guy down hard. #5. I really like the look of these, they are beautiful, and they are a piece of Buell history, but are they going to be less effective than my Nissin 6 piston single caliper?  | ||
| Spiderman |
Pure junk, Send them to me for proper disposal!  There are varying opinions, facts etc. I will tell you there is a reason these were pulled quickly. Too much power and too much weight to the wheel. But they look damned cool! I would love a set for my S2 | ||
| The_italian_job |
let me give you some infos since I use one of them on my X1 and was using it on my S1 before I changed the whole front end... they're definitely more effective of the Nissin stock calipers, even though less incline to be dosed during a braking process. in few words, it either doesn't stop you or it stops you too hard. and I'm talking about a single caliper, imagine with 2! maybe the things would change if you'll use a radial master cylinder. I'd go with a 19mm radial at least, cause to move 12 pistons of that size, you'll need a hell of a pressure! I have a Brembo 19 radial on my S1 with the Brembo monoblocks. there you'll have 4 more pistons to move, even though they're not radial and no monoblock. so, go with a 19 Brembo from Ducati 1098 and you won't go wrong. you can find used ones on eBay for around $100. good luck on your build and especially for your health... | ||
| Ratbuell |
With a fresh rebuild (I replaced seals and pistons in the caliper, and rebuilt the master cylinder), the single PM on my S2 stops a little less forcefully than the Nissin on my S1W. Could be a function of the heavier S2, could be the difference between 6k miles on the S1W and 18k on the S2 (used the stock brake line with the rebuild so it may have some swelling going on), could be the Harley master cylinder the S2 came with isn't a "perfect" match to the caliper. Not sure. Both are effective brakes, easy to modulate and control. Neither is "grabby" all of a sudden. Stopping power is VERY similar, with maybe a tad more midrange stopping power on the S1W (don't have to pull the lever as far as you do on the S2 during a mild-aggressive stop). From what I've heard - and maybe 1313 can chime in here since he was around back then - the dual disc setup simply added too much weight for the braking power increase it offered...and the stock single-6 works just fine on its own, at least on the street. I've had the ass end of the S2 off the ground during a mild panic-"whoa" event a couple of times...that tells me it's got plenty of braking power on tap  I don't know that I'd want to *double* that stopping power, especially if controllability/grabbiness is an "unknown" quantity. But as noted above - they sure do look nice! | ||
| Buellish |
"#4. What is the true story behind these calipers?" They are stock S2 calipers.44088-94Y was the original part number. The rebuild kit only includes seals and o-rings,part number 44148-94Y.I believe these numbers cross to new numbers. | ||
| 1313 |
maybe 1313 can chime in here Sorry to keep everyone waiting. I had to charge the batteries in my camera. #1 Disadvantages: - TOO MUCH weight - TOO MUCH brake - When available it was not just a bolt on affair #2 Master cylinder size for the S2 dual front brake was 3/4", which as all tuber owners know is the *same* as 19mm - the hex size of the nuts on the rear shock are 19mm, but 3/4" will get the job done...   #3 Not sure for using with a later tuber setup, but I presume the spoke direction might have something to do with load path and it probably wouldn't be a good idea to just reverse a 'normal' right side rotor to get the job done. As you can see from the pics below for the S2 a mirrored rotor carrier was created. 'normal' right side rotor carrier:  'mirrored' left side rotor carrier:  Incidentally it was the left side rotor carrier was a critical piece that made this NOT a bolt on affair. See that big countersunk area in the center - that wasn't there and had to be added by the user, along with the modification to the speedo drive seen below:  "#4. What is the true story behind these calipers?" They are stock S2 calipers. My dear friend Mr. Powell, I regret to inform you that assessment is incorrect, well partially. Below is the 'normal' S2 right side caliper:  While the caliper below is the 'mirrored' left side caliper:  The OE front rotor for the S2 was used on both sides with the dual setup, which was one of the beautiful things about the S2 front rotor and how it mounted to the carrier, as it could be put on 'upside down' on the left side and it was a perfect mirror image of the right side rotor. To answer the original posters question however, I am not 100% sure - other than the disadvantages in #1 above - but an old issue of Battle2Win (or maybe it was Thunder Press back when Reg ran it and had that awesome - but way too short - Buell section) showed a pic of the dual front brake setup on an S2 and made mention of it not being a bolt on affair which lead to the recall of the kit. Reg was pretty close with 'us' at the factory back then, and he's always been a straight-shooter, so that probably did have something to do with it. Honestly, I'd never heard of someone breaking their front wheel with this setup. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything, however. #5 I think Joe's assessment of the single Nissin vs. single PM brakes is spot on. I will say that back when I was riding company bikes and I jumped off my single PM equipped S2 and jumped on something with the single Nissin setup it wasn't like there was a night and day difference. Any differences in 'feeling' I'd write off to vehicle weights, but that's just my opinion. My only regret after purchasing the complete S2 dual front rotor setup I have - other than not having a 2nd S2 that I can put it on - is that I took the B06 label off the front fender, but the tape residue is still there.  But 'Big Red' still lives on in the memories of those who were lucky enough to have ridden it, 1313 | ||
| Buellish |
My dear friend Mr. Bremer,I evidently overlooked the fact that he was refering to the left hand caliper.Than you for keeping me in line.I always defer to the acknowledged experts in the field.But when you are not around and off in pursuit of important things such as the acquisition and study of beer. I as the owner of an S2 parts manual and someone who wasn't there when them were made,feel obligated to step in and insert not merely my foot but the whole leg with attached boot and sock,thank you. P.S.Should I toss the 6 month old flat Mountain Dew still residing in my fridge? | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Sorry to step in here but I just have a question, is that sarcasm, humor, or hurt feelings talking? Since there are no emoticons being used I can only guess, and wonder. From the first picture posted by Fuzzz I thought was the same caliper shown both sides, it's clear now it's a dual caliper set. Kind of a cool find, would be neat to have, just as neat things to have, you know? | ||
| Buellish |
The only emotion allowed in my relationship with Brankin is humor.  But feel free to wonder away. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Thank you. Cool bits of Buell history often bubble up to the surface here on Badweb. It's fun to get to observe that stuff. | ||
| Court |
I don't know where it is but somewhere around here I have the original Buell bill of material for the dual disc kit and the engineering stuff. I recognize the spot where that plastic embossed tag was removed. I had B-031 after it finished brake testing. B . . you remember when all the bikes we tracked on the white board outside the men's restroom? Well . . I asked Bret if he was done with B031 and he was . . so I walked out with a paper towel. . . and "erased" B-031, loaded it on a trailer behind the SHO and off it went to Topeka where it lived happily for the next two years until I bought it for $1.00. Great times. | ||
| Spiderman |
Hey Brak, I'll trade ya a bottle of absinthe for them parts | ||
| Fuzzz |
Thanks everyone for the help. I guess I'll have to shelve the project for a bit while I'm recovering, since I'm watching every dollar, and it's clear I need a new 19mm radial master cylinder and two new light-weight rotors to make this set-up work properly. It seems a shame to not use them, they are beautiful, and will make a nice addition to my 2000 Cyclone. Thanks again! | ||
| Dinuns1 |
Hey Fuzz ill pay a hefty price for those pm me if intrested in selling | ||
| Fuzzz |
Dinuns1, Thanks, but I think I'll hang on to them, I looked for them for a long time on only a rumor they existed. Just remembered another question!!! #6. Since these are completely clean, can I use Dot 4 fluid in them? | ||
| Ratbuell |
I bought it for $1.00. Yet another reason I *almost* don't like Court....  | ||
| 1313 |
Sorry that it appeared otherwise, but Buellish and I have long been friends, and we have our own unique ways of communicating to one another. We know each other and there were definitely no hurt feelings on either end, no matter how it appears to the casual observer. Mike- Speaking of that Mountain Dew, I wouldn't throw it out just yet. As long as they're sealed, they're good. We may find it of use in the near future. I'll give you a call either this weekend or next (most likely next...) to discuss what's on my mind - outside of the 'pursuit of important things such as the acquisition and study of beer'. Man, that cracks me up to no end. Maybe I should get that put on my tombstone? But, back to the matter at hand. #6. Since these are completely clean, can I use Dot 4 fluid in them? The PM seals are compatible with DOT 4. This is the answer that I got straight from the guys at PM when I was working for Buell and asked them the same question. If your calipers have never had any fluid in them, then you could go right ahead with using DOT 4. However, if there is any uncertainty whatsoever on whether they've ever had any fluid in them, a couple of PM caliper rebuild kits is a very small price to pay for absolute piece of mind. BTW, I guess I should've included in my original post that my S2 dual front brake assembly is Not For Sale. I have no desire to sell the setup and, as anyone whose ever visited can attest, I don't mind having motorcycle parts that I am not currently using lying around - especially Buell parts. They say everything has a price, so to show how serious I am in not wanting to sell them the pic below is about the only thing I would consider as a trade...  And we all know that ain't gonna happen, 1313 |
