| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
There's a YJP S2 that's been for sale in the area for quite a while now...and while a sixth Buell / second S2 would seem ridiculous (well...to anyone but Frank that is), I am tempted. But I'm curious how many were built, if anyone knows. It's a '95, white frame, white Marchis, YJP bodywork, and appears to be stock in the pics. And for the "rationalization" side of things (i.e. making an excuse so the wife rubberstamps the buy!) - anyone ever lower an S2 to match an M2L? Front end would be easy, just slide the forks up...will the low rear suspension work? Or does the steel swingarm mess things up? 'cause hey, if *she* can ride it...  | ||
| Rex |
I think Al from American Sport Bike might have a lowering kit | ||
| F_skinner |
Do we have production numbers by color? I am sure Mr Gess, Mr Canfield or Mr 1313 can weigh in on that but my response would be no. Not that the information does not exist but I believe it may be located in the bowls of HD Corporate and, if that is the case, we will never see it. I would hazard a guess that the most popular colors were Snap Red (95) and Canyon Red (96) for the S2. Of course the S2T came in only two colors "Not Purple" and Quick Silver Metallic. I am not much of a fan of the green color of the S3 but it does look pretty good on the S2 with the white frame, or so I hear!! I am guessing that HD has most of the information on the S2s. Maybe that is why some HD employee told me the list was a bad idea. | ||
| F_skinner |
I would be interested in seeing production numbers by year. The specific question I got was; How many S2s were made in 95? How many were made in 96? It would be great to know the color as well but the VIN lookup for my 96 S2T (number 95) shows the color YJP and we all know that the 96 S2T did not come in that color. So, of the 1399 S2s made in 95 and 96 what was the break down of year and color? I do not think we will ever have a solid answer, not because the information is not out there but because we will not have access to it. FYI, I just read a great book called "A Vincent in the Garage" which prompted me to contact a few people. Someone once told me that the S2s will be collector items someday. I disagreed but I have a feeling he was correct, as he often is. Of all the Buells made I think the S2 has the best chance of the modern tubers. Of course anything pre-HD are already sought after. BTW: for anyone that thinks the S2 Owners Registry is a waste of time (I have my doubts from time to time). "Documentation determines worth," I was told recently by someone that knows the vintage motorcycle business. I am still trying to take in and determine the impact of that conversation. | ||
| Gowindward |
Frank, is this the book? http://www.amazon.com/Vincent-Barn-Stories-Motorcy cle-Archaeology/dp/0760335354/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s =books&qid=1262013805&sr=8-2 IIRC there where like 1399 S2's built in '95 and then the 400+ S2T's in '96 and then another 400+ '96 S2' for a total of 2200+ bikes. I will have to dig around and find that info. "Someone once told me that the S2s will be collector items someday. I disagreed but I have a feeling he was correct, as he often is." Have you not looked out in your own garage? You are a collector!!! I bought one because I was "collecting" | ||
| F_skinner |
Loren, yes that is the book. I the last chapter talked about how Jay Leno got one of his. Interesting read. It would have been better with a Buell thrown in there. FWIW the 1399 number was for 95 and 96 S2s however, that does not cover all that were built (the actual number is over 200 more and does NOT include S2Ts). I am still confused on the 1B9 and 4MZ VINs. I know that the 1B9 number went over 300 units but the early S2s had a Signature Series number of XX of 200. It seems to me, when they figured out that they were going to build a lot more units than thought, they should of went right to the 4MZ VIN. However, this might be because assigning a new VIN block of numbers does not happen overnight. It requires paperwork and someone to do the heavy lifting. 498 S2Ts were built but you will see the 429 number because that was the number sold in the USA. I always imagined something like this. BMC: We will make 200 units the first year hence the XX of 200 number. The VIN block will more than cover it if we go over. Opps, the demand is high, lets say 1399 units and we will need to get a new VIN block in the near future. How they came up with the 1399 units is beyond me unless they waited until the end of production to send out the sig series stuff which I do not believed happened. Of course they may have done an analysis and picked a number to produce before the 97 year build. That seems more likely. I hate to base any data on a HD promotional program to sell the bikes (signature series stuff) but that is how I think it happened but I cannot back that up with any facts. I am trying to recall a conversation I had with 1313 but do not think we even touched on this. (I may have drank since then anyway) I would be interested in any more info, insight, documentation etc, that you have because this is neat stuff. At least to me it is. I need to take a closer look at the registry but there is still not enough data to do a real comparison. It is unfortunate that some owners do not feel the need to populate the registry with their data but there is nothing I can do about that. it will happen. I did learn something interesting. The fellow that evaluated the S2 Registry mentioned that it is very helpful to know the past owners, purchase dates, sale dates and sale amounts. I do keep those records for my bikes and would advise others to do the same. I do not like the term collector and prefer enthusiast. I think I am in better company with that term. It seems like I saw a picture in another thread in which someone had an S2 Enthusiast award, it made my day.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
All good points, Frank...but I do think the Signature Series was done after the fact. I'd have to pull my letter, but something in the verbage of the letter makes me think it was a "hey, we built these things and should say something about it" situation. Now I have to find that letter....it's somewhere in the office, but the office is the catch-all room for holiday guest cleanup right now. I *think* there's a couple desks in there...somewhere....lol | ||
| Gowindward |
Okay here is one reference to the production numbers I recall. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/400504.html | ||
| Gowindward |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/295315.html "Yes, there is a good ol' VERY LARGE Excel spreadsheet that recorded every bit of information about each and every bike. It's a matter of simply sorting by the color column. . . . ." Okay it's time to tell Court to cough it up!! | ||
| F_skinner |
Yes, agreed.... I would not put a lot of stock in those number but a little into that thread is the 2,147 number which is the one I could not remember from the documentation. Assuming the 2147 covers S2 and S2Ts that leaves 250... So if the first run was 200 (I need to check that when I get home) that leaves 50. 28 California bikes one year (1995) leaves 22. 22 California bikes the next year (1996)?????? Hell, I don't know.  I gotta go seek therapy | ||
| F_skinner |
I would rather that information stay safe with Court..... | ||
| Court |
The Signature Series marketing effort occurred AFTER the S2 production or in the later part of it. As good fortune would have it . . . . . the Signature Series work was done by a consultant and, just in the last year, ALL documentation has fallen into the hands of an Elf where it is safe. | ||
| F_skinner |
Loren, forget my numbers. I need to look at this when I have time. I have a bunch of files to look at..... 2147 was the number on the letter from Erik Buell which states only 2147 being made. Which includes all S2s, S2Ts, California models and ones shipped overseas. I have collected so much info that I have not gone through it all yet. | ||
| Easy_rider |
I've been trying to get him to let me do a pivot table on the data but he's resisted.... It's good to know the correct raw data is in a safe place - I just want a copy to play with! | ||
| F_skinner |
I am curious where I got the 498 number for the S2Ts (maybe Court and Dave's book), I am just thinking out loud here so bear with me. 2147 S2 and S2Ts were made According to the sig series: 398 - 1996 S2Ts were made 200 - 96 S2s were made (this is were I got the 200 number) 1399 - 1995 S2s were made 28 - 1995 California models were made That is 2025 bikes Lets see, if I use these numbers which I believe to be correct: 95 S2 = 1399 96 S2T = 498 (492 sold in USA and the rest overseas) 96 S2 = 200 California 1995 = 28 California 1996 (unknown but lets say 22) That is 2147 Here is where it gets interesting, we could have a: 1995 S2 California number 28 of 28 1995 49 state S2 number 28 of 1399 1996 S2T number 28 of 398 1996 S2 28 of 200 One reason why the full VIN is important Anyone want to take over this registry???  Did the S2s that went overseas (Japan and maybe the UK I think) follow the same rules? In other words could they get the sig series stuff and would the numbers reflect just the ones shipped overseas or part of the total for that year and make? I am unsure if different VINs are used for overseas models. I would not think so but do not know. Were there 398 S2Ts sold in the US or 429? Did the difference of 498 go overseas? How was number 399 - 429 reflected on the signature series documentation? Thanks to all that are sending me VINs and information. The good news is everything I am sent is being recorded and protected. The actual numbers are important but in no way a show stopper. The important thing is that there are a limited number of S2s and they should be accounted for. Frank | ||
| F_skinner |
It's good to know the correct raw data is in a safe place Maybe we will see it in a Buell Museum one day. Wouldn't that be great!!!! | ||
| F_skinner |
To the person that sent me an anonymous email. In the future you may want to use a damn proxy server. Lucky for you I am to damn busy to put much effort into this. For everyone else, I am sure he did not want me to share his email with everyone so here it is: "f-skinner, I have been watching your post on your badweb site about the S2 and the S2 list or registry or whatever you call it. I think you numbers are all wrong. I don’t know why you would want to keep track of all these bikes. I have several s2 but choose not to send you any thing about them because it is stupid. What do you hope to accomplish. Do you think you can keep track of every s2. The S2 is no more special than any other bike and why do they not have any kind of list. I think you and other people are trying to make the s2 a collector bike and you will find they will not be worth much since buell went out of business. You say you are an s2 enthusiast but I dont think so. You should post the list so everyone can see it and how sad it is." Anonymous I refuse to respond to your email so here is my response to you for everyone to see: I doubt you own a S2 much less many S2s as you state. But here is what I will do. You can call me and tell me the specific problem you have with me or the registry. Since you follow the BadWeb why don't sign on and post in this thread? Frank Skinner HP: 719-200-4957 f_skinner at yahoo dot com (Message edited by f_skinner on December 29, 2009) | ||
| 1313 |
Frank, The Email you copied above definitely doesn't sound like the person I thought it might have been based on our previous discussions. The guy sounds like an •••••• to me, but I tend to be judgmental when someone talks from the wrong orifice. I agree with your thoughts that he likely doesn't own a single S2. So I don't get worked up over his idiotic ramblings I'm going to change the topic... No S2-T's were shipped overseas *officially*. There may have been some gray market bikes, but the first HDI (International) bikes weren't until the S1. I'm drawing a blank whether it was late '97 or '98 MY when shipments began to overseas destinations. There would've been (and I seem to remember some) California S2-T's which may be the reason fro one discrepancy. An old friend used to own '96 S2-T (49 state) #321, so I know that at least that many were made. Heck, this is too involved for when I'm supposed to be on vacation... I'll probably drop back in once my vacations over, 1313 | ||
| Court |
The small of mind are such a waste . . . going through live absent love, passion, learning, friends and intense curiosity scares me to death. The vindictive rival the dull in terms of life's spent wasted. Hope the call doesn't come . . who needs that attitude. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Damn Frank...makin' friends every time you turn around, eh? LOL I agree with you though - if they owned an S2, they'd know why they're special. And, they'd know why S2 owners care. Period. Screw 'em if they don't want to man up and post here for all to see. And honestly...I could care less if my S2 becomes a "collector" bike or not. I just love riding it. And sitting there looking at it when I'm not riding it. And THAT's what it's about for me (and I suspect it's that way for a LOT of S2 owners). | ||
| F_skinner |
1313, I am positive it is not the same guy. Have a great vacation. I need to get home real soon and when I do we will have to have dinner again with the C3 gang. Some of my favorite people! Court, you are very wise and I doubt anything will come of it. When I first read the email I thought "no good dead goes unpunished" Rat, I like to think I have mellowed in my old age LOL. Like you, I bet a good number of S2 riders (enthusiast) could care less if the S2 was a collector bike or not. It is perfect for me and I like riding them. There is no feeling like being on the road on a vintage Buell. No FI, no radiator, big exhaust note, one headlight, a gas tank in the correct place, a trellis frame that is a work of art by itself and the excitement that at any moment something will vibrate loose. Maybe I need to re-look what I am doing with the owners list. I really hope that one day it will have some type of value to someone. In the mean time I have bigger fish to fry and barely have time for the S2 custom. Lynn is seeking employment and has been feeling down lately because she has not found anything yet. Not for lack of effort. She is really plugging away on the job search every day. We are looking forward to hanging out with you and Kim for Homecoming. Lynn and I will go to Fond du Lac and visit her folks before or after the event. Frank | ||
| Rickie_d |
Ratbuell – To your original post and the yet to be addressed rationalization for the rubber stamp; the rear of the S2 can be lowered without inner fender clearance issues (at least vertically). A .250 to .0 pie cut in the front mount equates to a .750 reduction in rear axel to sub-frame relationship for a given shock preload setting. | ||
| S2pengy |
But watch for clearance between the inner fender and drive belt as well as the battery brace and drive belt... These are the limiting items I have run into... | ||
| Rickie_d |
Actually I have lowered several S2’s .75” with no interference with either of these locations with a properly adjusted shock preload. This is providing the belt is adjusted properly. The interface I inferred to is the right sub-frame brace and the inner fender becomes exacerbated if it exists initially with the bike in question. I am referring to the early band aid appliqué to the inner fender to prevent chaffing of the carbon fiber. I have in one occasion resolved that issue by cutting that brace free from the frame and re-welding it with the necessary clearance. We are talking about an S2, correct!!!! I have “reasonably” lowered all other models, including my M2-L. |
