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Buell Motorcycle Forum » Old School Buell » Archive through November 19, 2009 » X1 crankshaft repairs « Previous Next »

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Snowbees
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 09:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

i have a small amount of play (up and down) in the center rod on my x1 crankshaft, its a lightweight pressed type crank, are new rods available for a repair. or do i throw it in the bin and buy a new crank as i have been told, looking for the cheapest option !
some part numbers would be helpfull if they are available.
Thanks.
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Buellistic
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You buy a SET OF CONNECTING RODS w/bearings,crank pin & nuts ...
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Oldog
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

lafayette, no nuts on the stock crank,

check with the local dealer or some of our sponsors, cranks are repairable, Kyrocket did his last year

btw Good catch it its not shelled out yet.

please post up on what you find as others will be facing similar in the years to come.
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Sportyeric
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My experience with the older style crank set-up was that you the tolerances for fitting either an oversized crank-pin or oversized rod bearings were so tight and time-consuming to properly machine that buying a factory matched set of rods-and-crankpin was usually the same price. I think that this would be the same whether yours was of the pressed in type or, like mine, with nuts.
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Buellistic
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 03:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Oldog:

My 1997 S3T PARTS BOOK shows nuts on my crank pin ...

Sportyeric:

The NEW WAY of the technicians is to buy the SET OF CONNECTING RODS w/beaings, crank pin & nuts(if your MODEL YEAR had them) ...

In the OLD SCHOOL DAYS you rebuilt everything you could ... Have done this myself and it is very time consuming ... Cheaper to swap parts and because of technicians(this ART FORM is not taught anymore) ... "BUT" when you got it done you knew it was RIGHT" !!!

If the CONNECTING ROD LAPPING ARBOR 96740-17(WL & G Models) or 96740-36 (74, 80 SV, 61, 74 OHV, K, KH, and SPORSTER) got wore out the bearing races would be out of shape ... Then you replaced LAP 96742-17(for 96740-17) and 96746-36(for 96740-36) ...
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Sportyeric
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 06:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yes, Lafayette. That's what I found with mine. The factory gets around the tight tolerances by simply having a selection of each (rod and bearing) across a range of tolerances. Rather than taking the time to lap one to match the other, it is only necessary to find the matching component in the tolerance range.
I actually had a shop lap mine to fit and they, by good luck, got a match quickly. My buddy, using the same shop, had them spend so much time that he could have bought a new matched set for less. (The shop told us both going in that they couldn't really provide a quote as to the cost because it was such a finicky process.)
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Buellistic
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 07:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

And "i" believe you unknowingly realized why some of the ROD BEARINGS go south too soon !!!
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Oldog
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 08:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Lafayette;

I have had the top end out of My X1 and the gear case, the cam bushings are open to the crank case, there are no nuts on the X1 Crank pin, .....
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Edv
Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 09:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

In my experience with the loose center rod it is the pin that has a groove worn into it so replacing the pin with a new set of rollers is the usual cure.

Hoban brothers in Wisconsin has a rebuild service for these cranks and I believe their prices are fair.
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Snowbees
Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 05:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks guys,
i will look for a matched pin and rod set for the x1, anybody got any links ?
it was a heavy rattle and i stopped before it went pop.
it is a pressed pin, no nuts. i have not split the crank to check what the problem is as i dont have the equipment.
will post my findings when done.
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Snowbees
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 04:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

NHRS Performance can supply an S&S rod set for $475, then a crank re balance is needed and a complete new oem crankshaft from H.D is $650.
not sure which way to turn, the S&S rods would be stronger.
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Rocketman
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 06:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The S&S pin and bearings are better quality also.

Rocket
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 08:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Would the S&S bottom end fit?
The X1 has lighter flywheels which are narrower, right?
I was told that the engine cases are different from sportster cases so that they can scrape the oil off of the different flywheels or something.
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Snowbees
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

split the crank today, result was a worn pin, bearings fell out, a few of them on the center rod had rough marks on, like someone had attacked with a file, more than likely due to metal particles at some point.
the center rod race had a spot of pitting where the damaged rollers had been sitting, outer rod race was ok.The side thrust bronze washers were also worn.
I think the bike might have suffered an oil pump drive gear failure in the past.

so i am looking into having the rod races replaced/or honed, new bearings and new crank pin made for the origional flywheels.

As for the s&s rods they will fit in the origional flywheel but weigh more than oem, therefore re balance would be needed.
i dont know about a complete s&s sportster crankshaft fitting my x1 crankcases but i am not going down that road.
The flywheels on x1's are lighter than those on older buells and sportsters
All good fun ! never mind the fact the bike needs new cylinders/pistons and new heads.
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Oldog
Posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 - 11:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hey Bees did you check into the XB crank being retrofittable into the X1 cases?

the pin is bigger and beefier, granted its mods, and you cant get an X1 crank???

The '08 shaft is equipped with a larger lower end pin and bearing, same stroke, the shafts are different ( may not be refittable )

good luck
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Snowbees
Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

thanks oldog, am going to repair the origional crank, new pin, bearings and new rod races, lots cheaper than a new crank.
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Oldog
Posted on Wednesday, November 11, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Whos doing the work?
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Snowbees
Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 04:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Forgot to say i am in the UK, a company called S-E-P in kegworth derbyshire.
they will make a new pin, hone or renew the rod races fit new bearings and rebuild the crank.
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Rocketman
Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 07:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Snowbee, you Sandy's friend? She called me possibly about your engine problems.

Rocket
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Snowbees
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 04:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Yes rocket, that me ! nothing but problems since i got the x1, but it will live again.
pm sent.
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Rocketman
Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 05:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Ah got your email ta. Small world eh!

Sandy was supposed to call me back, but she didn't, after I checked what I had.

I have an S&S crank pin/bearings/rods and main bearings, but the rear rod needs replacing. I believe it would press right into X1 flywheels. Not sure if you can buy the rod separately, but worth looking given they're not that expensive really.

I do have a set of Buell pistons though not sure which ones. I remember them being S1 or Thunder Storms, but the dealer I rang couldn't reference the HD part number on them, which I though weird??

I've a few bits and bobs, but you're probably going down the right path now. You might want to try Stan Stephens Tuning. They may be able to repair your cylinders.

Rocket
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Edv
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 01:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rocket
S&S rods are available separately
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Snowbees
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 05:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Rocket, tis a small world m8,
i have sent the crank off for repair, will wait and see what the engineers say before i go any further but am still interested in the s%s bits.
as for the cylinders/pistons, they come as a package from h.d,for a very good price, no more than having them repaired.
thanks, will be in touch
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Rocketman
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 07:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Good news the rods are available. Thanks for the info.



Rocket
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