| Author | Message | ||
     Pkforbes87 |
Well after months of trying to figure out how to get all legal paperwork arranged to get my S3 frame roadworthy.. I'm very frustrated and things don't look to be going anywhere. I bought the frame, swingarm, and some plastics from a guy who said it had been sitting behind his garage for two years after the engine, forks, and wheels had been removed and used for a chopper build. I got no title and no bill of sale, which shouldn't have been an issue. In Oklahoma, the frame is what the tax commission reads the VIN from.. anything stamped on the engine is irrelevant. Well, apparently someone didn't get the memo because I tracked down the current registered owner of the VIN on my frame, and he's got his piece of shit mad dog chopper tagged and titled as my 97 S3. Not much I can do about it without having any legal proof of ownership. So.. would a 97 S3 be an acceptable track bike? I had big plans for this bike, but without a way to get it legal there's no point in spending money on powdercoat and paint - which is about the only thing it needs to be a "brand new" T-bolt. I already have 95% of the parts to get it on the road - just missing a front fairing, fender, and a few nuts and bolts. | ||
| Numb_nutz |
In Michigan you would go to the secrtary of state and file for a abandon title. The state police usually get involved but no big deal. Once they clear it you get a title with a new vin number. The catch is you may have to assemble the bike first. They do a safetey inspection to make sure the bike is road worthy. | ||
| Kalali |
That's too bad. Could you register it in a different state? | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
My home of record is still Missouri, so I could check there. I know there are ways to get a title. I had planned to file for abandoned title, lost title, or a title 42. With the 42, I don't know details but basically it requires me to build the bike into a working vehicle, then claim that the registered owner has not paid for my labor and the title would then be put into my name via a labor lien. The VIN already being registered to another vehicle though kind of puts a kink in all of those ideas. I just don't see how two vehicles can be tagged and titled using the same VIN. Even if MO and OK don't share records very well, and I could get a MO title.. that could cause some very interesting situations when being pulled over. Guess I could go spend $7500 to get my title back  http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/mcy/1442289253. html I really hate these mutants. Again - I have no idea how this guy registered his chopper like he did. I have the title for my 2000 X1 that matches the motor I'll be installing in the S3, and every govt agency I've talked to says that I can not under any circumstances register the S3 using the X1 VIN. (Message edited by pkforbes87 on October 30, 2009) | ||
| Xl1200r |
Pk - Sounds to me like the guy registered with the old VIN, but no DMV that I'm aware will actually inspect the bike to make sure the VIN matches the registration. Basically, he took the easy way out and now you're screwed. I would say to him and your DMV that YOU have the frame with the original VIN on it and all this other guy has is an engine, not what tracks a VIN. If he wanted to regiater his bike, he should have gotten a VIN from the frame manufacturer. He basically has a bike registered with an incorrect VIN and that shouldn't be your problem. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"He basically has a bike registered with an incorrect VIN and that shouldn't be your problem." He also has a title with "my" VIN and HIS name on it. I'd love to go to the proper authorities and try to get his bogus registration pulled, but without any legal proof of ownership, I don't really have a leg to stand on. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Hmmm... So then the dude that sold him the motor also sold him the title. Yeah, you are kinda screwed now, ain't ya. You're right - if he has the title, who's to say the frame isn't actually his? How hard would it be to find a frame with a title that you could use instead? | ||
| Brinnutz |
Why can't you get the guy to give you a bill of sale? | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
If you don't have a bill of sale or proof of ownership you might have to get a new frame if you want to ride on the street. How much work have you put into the frame? paint, powdercoat? There's a risk buying another frame from ebay, you never know for sure if it's straight and perfect until you get it. You could recoup some expense of buying a titled frame by selling your un-titled frame... of course I wouldn't expect to get as much for it without a title. | ||
| Preybird1 |
It took a year and a half to get the ghost rider bike registered as it came from Australia. | ||
| Jramsey |
Pk, If the Hiway patrol had this guys add and address,with what he done by using the oem vin. which is illegal they will likely confiscate the bike. The title is to go with the frame. If he himself stamped the oem vin. on the neck he could have fraud charges brought against him also. (Message edited by Jramsey on October 30, 2009) | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Wilson - if I own the title to the S3's VIN, then he has no paperwork for his bogus registered chopper. (Even though his current paperwork SHOULDN'T work for registering his chopper) Not purple - I haven't worked on the frame yet, only bought a lot of parts that I may not need. As for another frame, I have an X1 frame with title. I have the entire X1 minus plastics, but I already have one completed X1 project on the road and lack the motivation to build the same bike again with different colors this time. I even considered modifying my X1 frame to hang S3 plastics, tank, and seat on it. That would take a lot of frame work because the top of the frame where the tank and seat mount is completely different between the two. Not to mention the aluminum subframe on the X1 vs more steel tubing on the S3. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Just got off the phone. Staties told me to call Public Safety. Public Safety told me to call the Tax Commission. The Tax Commission told me to call the Staties.. BUT I insisted that the tax commission help me, so after about a 30 min conversation I think I'm f*cked. I'd have to request a certified title report (all I have right now is the registration report) then file a civil suit against the guy with the chopper. Then stand in front of a judge and explain why I'm trying to get paperwork on a frame that the chopper guy legally owns. Basically I'd waste six months of my life with red tape, and the end result would be the S3 frame gets returned to chopper guy, and he gets penalized for illegally registering a vehicle. Best case - I have no S3 frame to work with. Worst case - I get nailed with receiving stolen property. I have access to someone who is VERY good at tig welding. Would it be insane to cut the front portion of the S3 frame and replace it with the front portion of the X1 frame? Then I'd have a title that matches the VIN on the frame AGH. It pisses me off that because this guy chose an illegal method of getting his bike on the road, my legal options for getting mine on the road are basically non-existent. edit: The S3 VIN may have inadvertently slipped during my conversation with the lady at the Tax Commission office. She was very interested to hear that the frame with that VIN was sitting bare in my garage, while "chopper guy" is out riding his "97 Buell S3". I hope they confiscate and cube the damn thing. (Message edited by pkforbes87 on October 30, 2009) | ||
| Easy_rider |
I expect to have a very similar situation, so I'm real interested in how this works out. To your original question as to the worthiness of an S3 as a track bike, I remember reading about those who practiced for years on their tuber and beat their best time within a few laps on an XB. There's not much of a price difference anymore so if time is your goal than an S3 isn't the right horse. If you enjoy riding tubers, though, I'd say it's good to have your track bike be similar to your daily rider. During powdercoat the VIN will be somewhat removed, if not completely. I'd try to approach this as a 1-off custom. I did some looking and found: "Custom cars, motorcycles, kit cars, and replica cars are warmly welcomed in Oklahoma. The Registration Office of the Oklahoma Tax Commission (OTC) in Oklahoma City is happy to assist you with the registration of your custom, kit, or refurbished motor vehicle." Farther down... "Your vehicle registration number will be based on the vehicle identification number (VIN) located on the body of the vehicle (body VIN). If the vehicle has a custom body without a body VIN, a VIN will be issued by the OTC. This number must then be die stamped onto the door plate on the vehicle." It's an unofficial site, but looks to be promising. The catch, you have to send in a pic of the completed bike. Stating that you have a custom might get the state reps to look at this differently and give you a more promising up-front answer, though. | ||
| Loki |
If the tax comm is interested, how do ya think his insurance co is gonna feel. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Phil, This thought just popped into my head... Find your threads you posted here about when you got the S3. Contact the JAG on base and let them know what's going on in case anything happens so you can cover your ass. Seriously, I would and let them know what is going on so that they can take care of you if it starts going south. | ||
| Gowindward |
There was a '98 S3 frame listed on Ebay this morning. Contact the seller and see if he will cut you a deal and if he has the title. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-BUELL-S3-THUND ERBOLT-FRAME-w-SWING-ARM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZit em20ade0a976QQitemZ140356135286QQptZMotorcyclesQ5f PartsQ5fAccessories | ||
| Guell |
Not to be an ass, but you shouldnt have bought it without a bill of sale or title. That was not a smart move, i almost went down this road with a s1w that was missing the engine and forks, but realized it wasnt worth the hassle | ||
| Easy_rider |
If you'd think of buying a frame there was one in CA. The seller let go of some other items relatively cheap. I can dig up his contact info if you're interested. | ||
| Preybird1 |
Try this out guys!! Looks like they can help. http://www.getnewtitle.com/component/content/artic le/34-newslight/32-motorcycle-titles.html Pricey but i think they have more power than the average consumer does and may be worth the money!! | ||
| Guell |
Only concern I would have is that they would find the old title but phil would still be up shit creek | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Wilson - that's a good idea, I'll talk with the local legal O on monday and make sure he's up to date on what has happened. I've heard so many scenarios, here and in person, about how I can get a title for this thing. A few of them abuse the system to put it lightly, and most of them are just downright illegal lol. I contacted the GNT company, haven't heard back yet. If I have to, I'll eat the $200 I paid for the S3 frame and just hang it on a wall somewhere. I rode my 02 X1 yesterday for the first time since buying the Uly, and quickly remembered how much fun the bike is. It actually made me think that if I can't get the S3 street legal, I can put the 00 X1 back together and have a nice track bike. It wouldn't be the fastest thing out there, but it sure would be fun. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Pk - I've just noticed a number of frames on eBay - one is for an M2 and says it comes with a clean title for $400... not sure if an M2 and an S3 frame are the same... | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
I'm thinking about just slapping the engine back in the 2000 X1 and using it as a track bike. I don't need another bike on the road, and would only be building the S3 to sell. It sucks to find all this out now.. after collecting a nice pile of S3 parts that is basically useless to me. | ||
| Numb_nutz |
Old school chopper guys used to grind the vin off stolen frames then get a receipt for some material and say they built the frame. They would have to prove you didn't. I don's see that happening. If you went that route your going to get a new vin anyway. I have a extra S3 frame with a bill of sale with plans of using soon. The title is with a chopper also. DMV said i just have to apply for a assembled title. Once the bike is done of course. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
I agree with num-nutz, just grind the numbers and say its home made... | ||
| Jramsey |
>> just grind the numbers...... In the state of Kansas doing that can possibly get you 5 to 10 in a gray bar hotel. | ||
| Oldog |
why all the drama, you have a frame some one else has an engine, see if you can alter or addendum the frame because your frame engine numbers will not match either | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
the frame and engine numbers dont have to match. the number stamped on the engine is worthless when it comes to titling and registering a vehicle. I'm not gonna risk altering the VIN on the frame. I'd rather eat the $200 the frame cost me rather than put my legal record and career on the line. An S3 frame will look great hanging on the wall anyway. | ||
| Kalali |
Instead of putting it up on the wall, may be you could make a nice glass top coffee table... |
