| Author | Message | ||
     14d |
When I opened up the primary I expected to find the retaining clip off the detent plate, but it was still on there. So I pulled the tranny looking for a reason for my false neutrals and poor shifting, but as far as I can tell nothing is wrong. Shifting forks look fine and are straight, all the gears look fine, everything shifts smoothly. Really has me scratching my head. I'm going to switch to sport trans or formula +, as I hadn't noticed this before I switched to Mobil1 VTwin 20w50 in the primary. I'm really hoping I can find neutral at a stop now, haven't had that luxury since prior to the barnett clutch. Any thoughts or ideas before I button it back up this weekend?   | ||
| Phelan |
Dunno what to tell ya. I'd replace all the springs and clips anyway while you have it out though. My dad's FXD had a weak spring on the shifter arm that eventually got so bad it didn't push the shifter pawl down in time to keep the shifting cam from turning too far. This caused the bike to be almost impossible to shift right. Also, I, too, had the retaining clip once fail, on my '03 XL1200S. | ||
| 14d |
Ah, good idea. The detent roller arm spring did seem really weak. Don't think I'll be able to make it to the dealer tomorrow, will have to wait till sunday. Should get to do a demo ride on some new(er) buells too. | ||
| Sloppy |
What you need to check for is to make sure the pins in the drum are flush where the detent plate fits. If the detent plate isn't flat, it will require a longer travel for the roller to get over the detent positions on the plate. Other problems can occur if the ratchet arm either rubs against the clutch hub OR makes contact with the detent plate. Check the grooves on the drum to make sure it is smooth - any grooves here will cause the pin in the shift fork to be delayed in travel. Last, and most important, check the dogs on the gears. They should be square. If there is any rounding of the gears it will have a tendency to not shift into position. The dogs are supposed to force themselves closed, but if they are rounded, they won't do this. Suggestions - 1. Make sure the pins in the drum are square. If you don't want to spend the money for a Baker drum, then take it to a machinist to braze the pins in place and tap a screw in the center to you can used a bolt to keep the detent plate in place. 2. If your dogs are rounded, buy Andrews reverse cut dog teeth - these will pull your gears into place. If you're not sure of any of this, then take close up pictures and let's see what the folks can help decipher. Good on you for going through the tranny. I feel this is the weakest part of the Buell design myself. | ||
| 14d |
I agree with you on the weakest part, having it out it's easy to see why they shift like a truck. The pins on the drum are all square, one is aprox .015" longer than the other ones though. I'm really considering taking it to a machinist to have it tapped for a screw and what not, on the other hand I really want to ride. All the dogs look good except for the ones here:  This is the one that is engaged in 4th gear, which is when I'm getting the false neutral (80% when I shift 3-4 while on it and revs are high). Looks like I may have found the culprit. Here's a close up.  So if this is the problem do I need to just replace that gear/dogs? It looks like the ones it mates with are in good shape. If they need replacing I might as well take the shift shaft to the machine shop. Also with the primary cover and clutch hub and whatnot removed the shifter shaft has a TON of vertical freeplay. I could see nothing wrong with it, and when it goes through the cover I imagine it gets rid of most of it, is this normal? | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Replace the dogs or anything else in question. They are cheap enough and this is easy enough to do. Why risk putting it back together broken? As for your TON of vertical freeplay, you would be better of obtaining a measurement and spec from revtec or BAKER. Is it quicendense ( metal ) that you have TONS of freeplay above damaged dogs? (Message edited by mmmi_grad on September 20, 2009) | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Also 3rd gear can act funny in a neglected trans that has not had fluid changed or changed enough even on a new bike with less than 1000 miles. | ||
| 14d |
Bike has under 10,000 on it, but the fluids were pretty nasty and a little low when I got it. That is 1st gear, main that I need to replace, yes? Anyone know the PN for it? Strapped for cash right now, so this will have to wait a bit unfortunately. | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
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| 14d |
Thanks, I'm familiar with the diagram, just wanted someone to confirm it before I go getting the parts. Would the andrews ones be compatible with the rest of the tranny if I'm just replacing that one gear? | ||
| Sloppy |
Good question - it likely will swap in, but check with Andrews rather then listening to our opinions.  As a "one stop shop", I can HIGHLY recommend the Baker 5 speed tranny pack. It's a full tranny that you just bolt in. While a bit pricey, it will make the bike shift better than a motocross bike. I wish they came from the factory with this tranny. I've been in the tranny 3+ times to cure erratic shifting and worn parts over time. Since switching to the Baker, I haven't had a need to open it up. I think a key aspect of the Baker design is it's machined transmission mount doesn't allow as much movement of the gears so the shifting, especially at higher loads, is more consistent. Once you have one missed shift, the damage begins to accumulate over time forcing you to replace the gears to get it back to nominal. (Message edited by sloppy on September 21, 2009) | ||
| Preybird1 |
HHHmmm I am thinking of changing the tranny out. The stock tranny is giving me problems again, The tranny is not shifting into 5th gear at high rpm very well. Even after replacing the shifter forks and clutch and shift drum. Low rpm is fine and shifts great. Any ideas? | ||
| Brinnutz |
Baker 6-speed? | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Spend some time in the KV on this one Russ, I believe I read something a while back regarding a slight mod to the Baker drum, like beveling some edges or something to make it work just a touch better. I've got a old magazine sitting on the floor of my living room right now with and article on the part, I'll have to open it up in the morning and see if I read the note there... | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Well I read the article in Battle2Win this morning and it is just a general review, doesn't really cover any technical details. I'll try and browse the kv later and see if I can find it since I have a more specific idea of where or what I read. It will be good to nail that little piece of info down anyway. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Having it back-cut will ensure positive shifts and eliminate missed gears..and if the gears have minor damage to the dogs, they can often be repaired when the back-cut is done... I would never consider reworking a trans without having it done...a competent shop will also magnaflux for cracks, bead blast and in the case of a tuber trans, set up and shim as needed... | ||
| 14d |
There's a couple post's in here about modifying the baker detent plate including some pics. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/476 23/160713.html | ||
| Preybird1 |
Ok here is an update the tranny got worse and will no longer go into 4th gear or 5th above 3k rpm, If you slow the rpms to 2500 it will shift like nothing is wrong in all gears. So i took it back to the dealer to have them fix whatever caused the damage to the shifter forks and drum. They said when it was pulled back out that it looked ok and they didn't know what was wrong. So the manager told me they were dropping the tranny off at the machinist at the bigger HD shop to see what they thought????????? Machinist????? OK they @%#$ed something up. The good thing is i personally inspected the tranny when it was out the first time and know the condition the tranny was in before there repairs! This is the second time i have had to take it back to them for incorrect diagnosis and repairs. I don't have tools to do this kind of work that's the only reason it's at a stealership!! (Message edited by preybird1 on October 20, 2009) | ||
| Phelan |
When I rebuilt the tranny in my Dad's FXD, it had a similar shifting problem. Turned out to be a weak spring on the shifter arm. Edit- Oops, I looked above and realized I already said that lol. (Message edited by Phelan on October 06, 2009) | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
"I don't have tools to do this kind of work that's the only reason it's at a stealership!!" The tools required to rebuild a tranny can be had for less than the cost of labor for the same job at most stealerships.  $280 - Craftsman 244 piece tool set with box (got mine on sale for $220)   $40 - SAE and Metric sets of ball end wrenches (more convenient than the normal allen sets included with the above tool set)  $55 - American Sport Bike Clutch Spring Compressor  PRICELESS - never relying on someone else to keep me in the cockpi.. err, saddle.  | ||
| Kalali |
I think this kind of precision work where every single detail counts goes beyond just having the tools. It requires a certain type of temperament blended with some intrinsic calmness and patience. In my case, I find myself tending to rush through the job to get to see the results. And needless to say, I end up screwing it up. I am much better off to leave any repair/upgrade work until dead winter when I know there is no f'king way I could get the bike out of the garage with 2 feet of snow on the ground... | ||
| The4ork |
does your trans drive the speedo or is it a wheel speedo? if so, can you post a pic of the gear that drives the signal? | ||
| Phelan |
If it's for his '00 X1, it's a tranny driven speedometer. | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
" masheenist " is the new technical term for someone who actually has percision or precision ( depending on where you live )tools and instuments in their own tool box and KNOWS what in the hell they are looking at, measuring, and testing. AKA " the guy who doesnt bolt on chrome." I really feel sorry for you Russ. You and your bike are in the wrong hands. Holy shit, I just realized you are Utah and might be at the " should be mowing grass for a living " dealer. Shit man They almost killed someone here in the forums a couple years ago over a loose primary chain, it was so worn out on the utah mountains that it broke and locked up the rear wheel at 80 mph!! Watch out! (Message edited by mmmi_grad on October 07, 2009) | ||
| Jeffb |
Does your bike have the updated star/pointed detent wheel? Early bikes have a rounded clover looking detent wheel that doesn't positively spin the drum. Later ones are pointed with steep ramps that snap the drum to the next gear. This makes a big difference.... Jeff | ||
| Cbm2 |
If I were you I would put in the Baker kit. I went through two detent plates in 2 years and if you have it apart already I would just spend the money and get it done. Its only a matter of time. | ||
| Preybird1 |
Ok update: Harley screwed the tranny up, The machinist said he will have to machine the brand new shifter forks and the baker shift drum. Also he said now i have to replace 2 gears and the case bushing as well as getting new shifter fork guide pins also. They said i don't have to pay for the gasket and the labor and oils, seals ect. But they want me to buy the parts $283 So i told him to get me a list of parts, he faxed it over, I looked it over and said ok order the parts................The service manager straight told me (WE SENT ALL OUR BUELLS BACK YESTERDAY AND COULD NO LONGER ORDER ME BUELL PARTS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A DEALER ANYMORE!!!!!) I said is that what that truck was doing here yesterday taking the bikes away? I though it was a new shipment what a bummer. No more places to buy buell bike's in utah anymore!!!!!! So i told the service manager to put the tranny back together so i can ship it to zippers for a full on race build application. Billet trap door, back cutting the gears for road racing and any other worn parts. Then all they have to do is pop it in for me. (Message edited by preybird1 on October 20, 2009) | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Jeez what a mess!!! If many of our garage mechanics here can pull, service and reinstall a tranny without major catastrophe why is the DEALERSHIP screwing it up? (Kinda rhetorical I guess, I know what Buellistic would say...) I talked to Les and Scotty at the SL shop on Tuesday, Scotty was great as ever and Wes simply told me politely they couldn't sell enough bikes to be worth it. Even though Les owns a Buell I don't think anyone has been excited about Buell since Ronnie Ford left (moved out of state) and their other parts/sales guy got fired for embezzling or some such thing. | ||
| 14d |
I found pulling the tranny to be relatively easy (like most tasks on these bikes). Shift drum is at the machinist now and a new gear is on its way, hopefully will feel the same ease putting it back together, lol. | ||
| Preybird1 |
Bump to keep the thread going until friday when i get the total price form zippers for the re-build. |
