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Buell Motorcycle Forum » Old School Buell » Archive through November 19, 2009 » 2000 buell x1 running lean « Previous Next »

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Dogfromcanada
Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 10:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I picked up a 2000 buell x1 lightning a couple weeks ago. I love the bike but it is running lean and backfiring between 2500-3500 rpms (i think in closed loop mode. The bike is stock except for a vince and hines exhaust and K&N. The ecm is the stock ecm. I had the dealer check out the bike and there was no error codes or intake leaks they said race ecm's are not available and not that great. The dealer suggested modifying the muffler to slow down air flow enriching the bike or better yet try and find a stock muffler. Does this make sense? should I get a race ecm off ebay, should I get ecmspy off ebay? where should I start? The dealer also dyno'd the bike to confirm is is lean in the 2500-3500 rpm range and also at idle.
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Bartimus
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 12:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Look for a race ECM, or better yet, get ECMspy and tune it yourself.
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Dogfromcanada
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 12:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

does the race ecm to run richer in the closed loop program? across the whole rpm range?
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Mmmi_grad
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 12:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

You cant take more air in and let more air out without more gas.

first get ecm spy you will need it to reset tps.
Second Either get a confirmed unmolested race ecm or buy one from American Sport Bike.Then the formula " race " will match.
OR insted
Put a stock air filter on and a stock muffler.

After you have done two of the above things, then you can study ecmspy and tune if you want.

Keep in mind, the stock ecm has its balls cut by the EPA. One could get some decent performance out of it after a good tune with ecmspy with all 3 mods being stock. But since you already got 2 of the 3 mods already, you may aas well just go with a race ecm that has not been ecmspyed by someone or messed up. I dont suggest you jump into ecmspy until you know more about your bike.

Also, I would not have told you any of that crap the dealer told you, you can get a race ecm and why in the hell modify a HP muffler. Do what i said and make things match.

Yes the race ecm gives more gas and is not subject to epa rules. Its what you need. I know some people who used to make and test the x1 ecm at the factory. Thats all im saying about that too!



(Message edited by mmmi_grad on October 15, 2009)

(Message edited by mmmi_grad on October 15, 2009)
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Firemanjim
Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 02:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Check your intake seals--they need replacing every couple of years,esp if bike sits alot. And make sure the vacuum port on the throttle body is capped. Cannot count the number of bikes we see with this open,just had another yesterday.
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Dogfromcanada
Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 07:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Installed new race ECM dealer reset TPS twice. Bike runs exacltly the same maybe even worse. It seemed to move the problem 500 rpm higher. Now it only runs smooth hitting 4000rpm and beyond. The mechanic wants to get a new cam sensor and TPS sensor. His gut feeling is the problem is with the throttle but he has seen alot of bad timing sensors over the years. Anyone else have some thoughts. In need to wait to next week for the parts before going back in. The mechanic seems really good. He has had one of these bikes himself and thinks we can eventually get it sorted. He said the bike is really nice and definetely worth sorting out.
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Dogfromcanada
Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 07:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

oh we rechecked for intake leaks with a propane torch. Definetly no leaks
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Dogfromcanada
Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 07:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

here is a pic of the bike

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Kalali
Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 05:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My bike had the same set up when I bought it I had the same symptoms. I went the ECMSPY route; loaded Race ECM fuel/timing maps onto my stock ECM and used that as the starting point. I then kept tweaking the maps (and other ECM configuration) until finally got it dialed in. Did your mechanic run diagnostics and determined those parts are bad or just guessing?
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Buellistic
Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 09:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

IMHO, the fuel injected models come mapped too lean(13 - 12 to one fuel air ratio, "i" like 12 to 1) ...

Next cause is the SEAL,intake mainfold PN 26992-99(wonder if the 26995-86B will work???) ...

Check your electrical connections ...

Next thing to check is the fuel injectors ... There should be a place in your area that can check them ... A automotive parts store will be able to cross refferance(part number on the injector) for a replacement if necessary ...

"HARLEY-DAVIDSON Motor Company, making MECHANICS and PARTS MEN out of BUELL Riders since THURSDAY 15 OCTOBER 2009 !!!'


"MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!!"
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Dogfromcanada
Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 08:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

the mechanic ran diagnostics in the sense of looking for error codes. He is speculating that the problem may be with either the tps sensor or cam sensor or timing could be off. If we put in a new cam sensor the timing will be checked also at the same time. The race ecm should work. the fact that it didnt tells me its something else. the stock ecm actually works better in the sense that the real proplem is under 3500 rpm around 3200 is real bad. the race ecm seems to move the problem up 500 rpm higher.
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Mmmi_grad
Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 09:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Timing is crucial on these FI bikes.

If the TPS is original, then yes after 10 years I would install a new one! Cam sensor bad? I dont know, I would go there last. I would retime it, and put new TPS on, reset tps and test ride. Then and only then replace cam sensor if problems remain.

Also make sure you are doing your TPS resets with motor hot, and over 130C degrees. While you are doing this monitor the rise in temp in ecm spy. If you notice your engine temp bouncing around you have a bad temp sensor and that will throw things out of whack too. Again temp sensor is another important sensor than can strand you, so replace it too if OLD.
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Dogfromcanada
Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 09:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Thanks Mmmi grad The order that you have explained makes great sense. I beleive thats the order the mechanic was thinking. There was also a temp sensor in stock that has been put on hold in case its required.
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Dogfromcanada
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

fixed. Bike is now running perfect. The mechanic at the harley shop did a great job at fixing the problem. The main problem were the wires leading to the cam sensor. For some reason somewhere along the line the wiring harness from the sensor was routed under the starter motor. This caused the wires to be squished and was causing all kinds of problems. It was a wonder it was running at all. The bike now has a new cam sensor. we also put on a new tps sensor and temp sensor as they were original. The temp sensor wire looked a bit ragged and frayed. Thanks for all the advice and tips. I just love the ways the bike now runs.
cheers
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Kalali
Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 09:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So how did you/he know for sure the problem was with the cam sensor wires given that he changes all the other parts as well? I am not questioning his judgement just trying to understand.
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Dogfromcanada
Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Right up front we agreed to minimize shop time etc and replace the three sensors diagnos from there. If we hadn't agreed to address the problem that way up front it may have taken alot of time to realize the cam sensor problem the way it was routed and trapped under the starter. Also since I had already bought a new race ecm it made sense for me to know I also have new sensors feeding the fuel injection season. I have the cam sensor and you can see how the wires were squished and mangled over the years of being under the starter. In his judgement and mine it was definetely the biggest problem. The temp sensor had frayed wiring also so that was just good sense to replace also. The TPS is orignial and being 10 years old thought why not replace it too. The O2 sensor had already been replaced by the previous owner so we didn't do that one. I'n closing I'd just like to say that the mechanic was a real joy to deal with. He said that the tube buell is his favorite buell. You can tell that he has a passion for thes older bikes.
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