G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile


Buell Motorcycle Forum » Old School Buell » Archive through September 22, 2009 » Will it ever end? « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kyrocket
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm at wits end! For those that have been around you know about the blow up and subsequent rebuild with the 1250. Well, after putting 100 miles on it I was losing valves. I'm beginning to think it's the actual rocker box itself. I replaced mine with those off of a XB9 and while they should have been the same it measured a few hundredths shorter so I put the originals back on last night along with the head and two new valves. When I turned the rear wheel nothing in the front box moves. The piston is moving up and down in the cylinder but that's it. So I'll tear everything back down, AGAIN, and hope and pray it's the lifters. It has to either be that or the two front cams which if my cams went south you'd think you could hear them grind when the tire was rolled. This is really becoming a headache. I bragged on this bike for 24K basically trouble free miles and now this. Are there any other ideas that I'm missing?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Oldog
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

the key way in the cam box sheared
its on the driving gear

I am so sorry to hear of the troubles you are having, but you are learning a great deal about the finer points of the engines construction ( not sarcasam )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Preybird1
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

This is why i did not do my 1250 kit myself. I didn't trust myself enough to get it right. How are you losing valves? Sticking still Or breaking off? Are the valves breaking at the head or the stem at the locks? If nothing is moving i would say lifters. Did you take them out for the rebuild? When my motor grenaded i had the lifters checked and tested to be sure before it went back together. I have to much money and time into my bike to not make sure everything was ok before re-assembly.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brinnutz
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

No...but enjoy it. =) lol
Going on my 1 year anniversary of the last ride on my Buell on the 19th. But that is because I keep adding projects that delay any other progress.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fast1075
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If it sheared the key...that explains the bad valves...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dpg
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Not sure about the key way shearing, never have had that problem. I did my 1250 assembly myself and it was a really easy modification. In fact I did the SE cams and springs and an S&S E carb on the bike (Sportster) at the same time. Everything was pretty simple and done with just the FM and parts manual. Only issue I had was that my motor was and early Evo and the pushrod cover bases are an o-ring seal that you have to push in and then do a 1/4 turn. The lower semi-fins on the Millenium cylinders kept me from removing them due to the increased width of the cylinders at the bases. I ended up grinding the side of the cylinders to make the clearance. I'd do another 1250 anytime.

This was the first time I had gotten into that motor.

Safe ride,

Gary in Oaktown
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rick_a
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 02:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Mine nearly sheared that key when it was stock. The pinion nut needs to be over-torqued to 70 ft-lbs to insure it doesn't back out with more aggressive cams and valve springs.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brinnutz
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Uh-Oh.

I sure hope I torqued mine to that!?!?!?

What's the stock torque on it? I put red loctite on mine....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

14d
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 05:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

35-45 Ft-lbs w/ red loctite is what FSM calls for.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kyrocket
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I haven't looked at my manual but if the keyway sheared wouldn't it effect all the cams and not just #1&2? I've only put 100 miles on it since the rebuild and those have all been below 3500 rpms. If ya'll remember this wasn't just a 1250 but a full blown split the cases and replace a chewed up crankpin. It looked like an old Coke bottle when I got it out of the flywheels. The valves are bending just above the head of the valve. First was the intake on the rear cylinder then the exhaust on the front. I went ahead and replaced both valves on the front with a valve spring compressor I bought online for $50 to the door. It's already paid for itself. Soooo, I will research this keyway because in reality that is probably the easiest fix baring any other damage it may have caused. Right now I'm taking a daughter downtown to the car show, this bike can wait. Oh yeah, Brinnitz, Sept. 5 was my blow up date so I feel where you're coming from. I think I have an automotive project coming my way so I'm taking pics at the car show, I'll let yous know later about that.
Thanks for the ideas
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

14d
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 07:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

A sheared key would affect all cams I'd think, not just the front two. How are the pushrods looking? Sounds like you need to open up the gear case to get to the bottom of this.

Between a burnt out clutch, broken muffler mounts, being injured, work and other BS I've only put 1,200 miles on in the past 10 months. Everything's coming together now, just have to be patient a little longer...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rick_a
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


quote:

35-45 Ft-lbs w/ red loctite is what FSM calls for



That spec is marginal (if not totally inadequate) for heavy valve springs required for more aggressive cams.

From NRHS's tech tips on cam installation:

quote:

Pinion Nut: The way the pinion gear is retained on XL motors since 1987 is a bit problematic. You've probably noticed by now that there's a woodruff key under your oil pump drive gear that keeps it rotationally attached to the pinion shaft. Just a small portion of that woodruff key sticks out and provides the same service to the pinion gear. Well, it's not nearly as uncommon as it should be for the tip of that woodruff key to shear off, allowing your pinion shaft to spin freely of your pinion gear, and that'll quickly send pistons crashing into valves. Not a good thing. This especially happens with the big valve springs that often go with high performance cams. The good news is that you can make the failure very unlikely by simply tightening the pinion nut to 70 ft-lbs. Now there's enough clamp load on the pinion gear that it relieves some of the burden from the woodruff key. Be sure and use Loctite red on this fastener as well.





Something to consider. It's your engine...build it as you will. As I've said, I had mine a c-hair from breaking...it had elongated the slot on the cam drive gear and the nut had lost it's tension.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Buellistic
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The BLAST FSM says 19-21 ft.lbs. plus and additional 15 to 17 degrees roation ...

These are the same parts as in the TWINS ...

FSM's are something else from FSM to FSM !!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kyrocket
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Hmmm...left a message early this morning from home but didn't show up here. Maybe I forgot to post but it went something like...if the keyway did shear off wouldn't it affect all the drive gears and not just the front two? I'll agree that both front lifters going south at the same time seems fishy also. The rear is fine, getting good compression and everything. I guess I'll just have to open it back up this weekend.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Oldog
Posted on Friday, September 11, 2009 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

you have failures on both cylinders i sadly expect that you will find a mess in there,
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kyrocket
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 07:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

HALF A KEYWAY AND WOODRUFF KEY IS ALL THAT RUNS THE TIMING? I put the motor together but never really gave it a thought. The nut backed off just enough to let the gear separate from the woodruff key, just have to tighten it back up. Thanks for the updated info on the torque specs. Glad to be part of a community that knows what they're talking about (politics excluded) and is willing to share.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Oldog
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 09:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Good you found it!

I hope that there was no other damage.

the torque spec should be TTFOI

tighten the "Fire" out of it.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brinnutz
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So I only tightened mine to fsm spec. Should I redo?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Kyrocket
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

What else do you have to do: )? If you didn't put loc-tite on it definitely pull it back off. Even if you did you may want to think about it. It only took mine 100 miles to back off.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brinnutz
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 02:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Red loctite and I think I went 40-45 ft/lbs
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fast1075
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Don't forget to use a good solvent like BrakeKleen to remove all traces of oil from the threads on the crank and the nut prior to adding the locktite and doing the final torque...the locktite will adhere much better on a clean surface than an oily surface.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brinnutz
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 02:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well I didn't do that either.

Jim, do you mind if I redo?? LOL
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Oldog
Posted on Wednesday, September 16, 2009 - 11:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Non Issue on that tool Brin I know that you are still in progress, I may need your amazing ability to sourse tuber parts,

say.... can you find me a pegasus timer cover?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brinnutz
Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'll keep an eye out man!

I only have one, but if I had another, it'd be yours!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

14d
Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I just stood on the rear brake while I torqued it to 45, this is making me reconsider...
« Previous Next »

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and custodians may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Post as "Anonymous" (Valid reason required. Abusers will be exposed. If unsure, ask.)
Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration