| Author | Message | ||
     Skntpig |
My guess is that Buell knows the Barry part is a softer durometer. Maybe this becomes more of a wear item and the mounts/bolts/heads don't break as often. Just a guess. | ||
| Dpg |
I installed the NRHS billet mount recently. I couldn't figure out how to get a torque wrench on there either. Then I tried using a long 'wobble' extension with my large Craftsman torque wrench. 3/8" wrench didn't go up to 100lbs. I was able to get the torque up to 80lbs. and then I had a problem getting leverage on the wrench and long extension by myself. I've always been under the assumption that when using a torque wrench on a nut and bolt situation you torque the nut and not the bolt head. Not sure if it makes any difference. On the NRHS description of their mount they mention 'other' aftermarket mounts. Who else makes a mount for the Tubers? I think it's my imagination since being off the bike for some time, but this weekend after putting on about 180 miles I could swear the vibes in the handlebar was worse than I remember. Hands went numb at 90-100 miles and it was warm on Sunday. Could the added stiffness/mass of the new mount transfer more engine vibes? Safe ride, Gary in Oaktown | ||
| Reepicheep |
Court has been busy being "The Stig!" | ||
| Court |
Court is very busy on a Buell project . . . see you this evening . . . off to log miles!  | ||
| Buffalobolt |
I am at 5,000 miles with a drilled out 79D. There is a noticeable increase on the vibes, but no other problems. So far... | ||
| Gowindward |
"I've always been under the assumption that when using a torque wrench on a nut and bolt situation you torque the nut and not the bolt head. Not sure if it makes any difference." From a guy named Newton...you may have heard of him. For a force there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions. | ||
| Skntpig |
Dpg, did you try from the top or bottom? | ||
| Oldog |
I used a 1/2" drive wrench from between the fork legs, here is the simplified how to on the front iso again for your entertainment, Moshe, applying the force needed can be a bit daunting, but you can do it, if nothing else have a friend hold the handle bars for you, you work up from beneath the bolt Revised Front iso change 1. Place the cycle on jack stands at the rear ( passenger foot rests ) 2. place a bottle jack and a block if desired under the engine sump 3. remove the seat and tank 4. tools for iso removal ¾” end wrench, ¾ socket & ratchet, 9/16” end wrench, u-joint socket, short wobble extension, regular socket, deep socket, longer (8”) wobble extension 5. loctite. From the right side, fit the ¾” end wrench to the top nut of the hanger bolt and d washer assembly reach in front of the weld joint of the 2 tubes. Fit the ¾” socket and ratchet from between the forks. The front wheel can be held to help secure the machine as the force to loosen the bolt is significant. loosen and remove the bolt D-washer etc there are 2 washers one is between the motor mount and the hanger. slip the 9/16 end wrench between the rocker box and the frame on the right side from behind the weld at the two tubes. fit the open end on the nut hold it with the left hand. place the short u-joint socket on a short wobble extension and place those on the head of the right hand mount, remove bolt. move to the left hand side of the machine, move the wires and throttle cables to reveal the left bolt head, if needed you can unhook and remove the electrical connectors / cables and thread them back out of the hole, make note of the ORDER that you do this as it will be critical to re install. fit the end wrench to the bolt head ( top) assemble the deep socket and the long wobble extension turn the nut off of the bolt remove the wrench and then the bolt the D washer and the isolator remove from the right hand side of the machine, Assembly is in the reverse order of removal. Use the jack to hold and position the motor for inserting the hanger bolt. You will probably have to raise the motor slightly to get the bolt in. 3/8” bolt (9/16”) head torques to 35 ft# ¾” hanger bolt torques to 110 # I blue loctited all fasteners. I used a standard socket IIRC short extension, and the torque wrench so far the drag specialties iso seems to be holding up well, total milage just over 2150 the vibe is noticeable,but has lessened, I suspect that the original mount may have been failing. Now an off topic question what alloy # are the frame tubes made of ? I found a hole worn in mine by the exhaust pipe and it needs to be welded up. like rosanna danna's mother said, "Its always something"  If you go the DS iso route, consider changing the mount and bolts. YMMV | ||
| Fast1075 |
Naustin...the original failed at 2700 miles...the bike was a retired rider's edge bike...I wrote the first failure off as being caused by much prolonged low speed operation, which I figured had overheated the rubber....the replacement stock blast mount I installed lasted 800 miles before it failed...the second replacement mount failed in less than 300 miles...in all the failures, the problem was the metal mount stem in the center lost it's bond with the rubber. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Gowindward... good point and good thinking, but Newton would probably also have added "except for possible variations resulting from other factors such as dynamic and static friction, particularly as clamping forces increase". I don't know the answer, but its a good question... Ultimately, I think I agree with you. My guess is that if it mattered, it would have caused more problems, and the manuals would tell you which to do. The fact that they don't tell you probably means it generally doesn't matter. | ||
| Skntpig |
Oldog, Do you have an NRHS mount? It's possible to do from the bottom with a stock or open mount. The additional bracing on the billet mount makes it...well I couldn't get at it. | ||
| Oldog |
Sknt Yes I got one of those, from AL and yes I turned the bolt from below using a socket and extension on the torque wrench | ||
| Skntpig |
Thanks man! Sorry I didn't see that anywhere. | ||
| Dpg |
Skntpig: Yes, I was able to connect the socket to the bolt head on the bottom. The 3/4" nut is underneath that flat braced area of the frame and there's no clearance for any sort of standard socket or ratchet head. That's why I suggested the crow's foot adapter on another thread. The NRHS description mentions being able to put the bolt in from the bottom, but there's no way to put that bolt in from the top, so I'm not sure what they are getting at. I'm able to change out that top isolator and the vertical bolt with the tank on, but it would really help if I had loooong thin fingers LO! Safe ride, Gary in Oaktown | ||
| Oldog |
No Prob.... | ||
| Blackm2 |
FYI: a note I sent to Barry You may have gotten inquiries about this already. I am a proud owner of a 2001 Buell Cyclone motorcycle that utilizes your Barry 28043 mount. The original mount lasted 22,000 miles which I am happy with. The OEM replacement was also a Barry but it has only lasted 3,500 miles. There is a noticeable difference in softness to the rubber, the newer one being significantly softer. Has there been a compound change in the rubber on these mounts that could cause premature failure? Can you recommend an alternative that would last a bit longer? Other owners of the same brand of motorcycle are complaining of even shorter lifespans on their replacement mounts. I appreciate any information you can give. Thank you. The response: David, Thank you for your note and your concern. I am not aware of this issue however I will inquire with an engineer responsible for Harley / Buell accounts if there is an alternate solution. Thank you for your patience. Best regards Jay Lead Applications Engineer Barry Controls | ||
| Easy_rider |
I got mine today as well. Sent: Barry isolators are used as Harley Davidson part number 16701-79C, the front isolator for the engine mount in older Buell motorcycles. Recently a number of end users have reported what is believed to be premature failures of the isolators. I cannot tell you if this is a large percentage of isolators sold in the replacement market, but all indications are that the current design cannot be expected to last more than a few thousand miles. Can you tell me if Barry is aware of the issue? If not, and if samples are desired please contact me and I'll work to locate some for your analysis. I understand that there are a number of possibilities that may have led to the current situation. My intent is to accelerate finding a solution to the problem. It appears the most popular alternative the Buell owners have at this point is to purchase a Lord part and drill to fit. I think we'd all prefer a solution designed for the application. Respectfully, Roger Grah Received: Dear Mr. Grah, Thank you very much for your summary and your concern. We are actively working with engineering at Harley and Buell on any issues that may arise. We currently have engineers assigned to projects to improve quality and durability of isolation systems on number of platforms, including some redesigns. These efforts take time to develop, validate, and implement but rest assured that the issues are being addressed. Best regards Jay J. Osmecki Lead Applications Engineer Barry Controls 508-417-7044; cell 508-494-2404 | ||
| Psycrow |
Ds iso just failed 1000kms from home on day one of a 4 day trip! The rubber has riped from the sleave. Vibes are bad but I'm gonna finish the trip and hope for the best. Only 1000Kms on the DS ISO. Psy (Message edited by psycrow on July 16, 2009) | ||
| Ebutch |
Good Luck Jeff!!!!!  | ||
| Dpg |
Psycrow: Wishing you well on your continued trip. Keep an eye on those motor mount bolts. With luck they will hold up until you get home. It's my greatest fear to get stranded somewhere on a multi day trip. It's not as if there are Buell dealers all over the place. 1000kms as the failure mark sucks! Safe ride, Gary in Oaktown | ||
| Fullauto |
I have a NRHS billet mount fitted and I can torque the bolt from below. A tight fit but I can do it. Maybe the difference is in the torque wrench design. Maybe Buell has 100,000 of these isolators in stock and is waiting for us to use them all up before springing the new improved one on us! So, get riding. | ||
| Naustin |
Psycrow, Don't do it. You need to replace the isolator before you ride one more mile unless you want to sheer a head bolt or snap the bracket! Trust me!! The Iso on my S3T failed 3 times while on a trip, the last time it went, I just pushed for home... I made it home, but one of the head bolts fell out on the ground when I pulled in the driveway. THe clutch cable blocked it from falling out sooner. (Message edited by naustin on July 16, 2009) | ||
| Court |
>>>but Newton would probably also have added "except for possible variations resulting from other factors such as dynamic and static friction, particularly as clamping forces increase". Almost precisely the wording from the ASTM spec for torquing steel fasteners. Well done. Torque the nut. | ||
| Court |
>>>I am not aware of this issue I'm going to write this engineer up . . . isn't that PRECISELY what I said. Let's see if he gets blasted for it. | ||
| X1_ |
Uh-oh Court is on the prowl! | ||
| Naustin |
Let's see if he gets blasted for it I don't recall him writing a book about Buell....  (Message edited by naustin on July 16, 2009) | ||
| Jramsey |
Court, you have posted numerous times on this thread, how about an answer to the original posters question. | ||
| Tom_b |
I agree jramsey..Just answer the question Court or get anonymous from the factory to answer it ..The isolators are a problem. As far as people saying if i don't like my buell sell it.. Buy it for what i paid for it and it's yours. Or better yet even half of what i paid for it..I don't drink the koolaid. I just ride bikes. I've learned the hard way Buells aren't all that. | ||
| X1_ |
I don't think Court owes anyone anything on this board, as Court said he's a construction worker and he has stated before in one of the 50 other threads about torn isolators that Buell knows about it. Al Lighten has also stated that Buell knows about it and is working on it. I am sure that they are working on it but I think they only have to provide parts for 10 years, hell you can still buy everything for an S2 to this day, I think Buell does more than most company's in the industry. As far as what you payed for it hell it happens especially with this economy. I mean look at all the other sportbike company's are the same Buell isn't any different. Bike prices are down around the board. I searched the archives the other day because I was bored and noticed that even though tuber prices are low they are steady most you see are from 3500 to 4000, sure it sucks but im pretty sure the motorcycle has payed for itself in enjoyment. On a side note no bike is all that they all have problems and if an Isolator is my only problem then I haven't got much to worry about it isn't hard to carry a spare one with you if you are that worried. (Message edited by X1_ on July 17, 2009) | ||
| Tom_b |
Why should i have to carry a spare isolator x1? Or a spare throttle body, or a spare belt, or spare rocker box gaskets ,or spare ecm, front exhaust mount bracket, all this stuff has went bad on a bike with less than 15,000 miles. This is supposed to be a world class american built motorcycle. my suzukis, honda, yamahas, even triumph and bmw didn't have all the problems combined that i've have with my buell and they were all a LOT older. plus i didn't pay near as much per bike for a LOT less headache. I just sold a 20 yr fj 1200 for close to what it sold for new. I can't sell a 10 yr old buell for a third of what it sold for new, MAYBE parts.. Only provide parts for 10 years???  I CAN WALK INTO MOST ASIAN BIKE SHOPS AND HAVE MOST PARTS FOR MY GS1000, GS750 AND XS 1100 within a 2 weeks. they are all over 20 years old. Court was asked because he claims to have the ear of the the man himself. or is it just until the koolaid spills. Also i have a variety of bikes because i love bikes. I have several friends that own buells, most of them have a love/hate relationship with them. I have friends that have other brands they mostly just love theirs, kind of like my 20 yr old suzuki that i wouldn't hesitate heading out across country on, unlike my buell. (Message edited by tom_b on July 17, 2009) |
