|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 03:50 pm: ||
I have a line on a nice 2001 S3T that had the oil pump gear self destruct. Apparently it damaged the cam gears as well. I have not looked at this bike yet. It is low miles and appears to be in nice condition. Question is, what other damage could have been done? He said he rode it another couple miles to get it home when the gear blew and it's been parked ever since. Also he wants just under 3 for it. What is your guys take on the deal? I can do the work myself. Thanks.
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 03:59 pm: ||
Pretty much anything in the cam case and oil passages/oil pump. It is hard to say without looking.
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 04:01 pm: ||
possible damage from metal fragments
crank, pistons, rings, lifters, cams, bushings, pump, rockers
debris in lines and oil tank.
rode it 2 miles no oil pressure....
2k would be my offer, plan on in frame tear down
(Message edited by Oldog on July 16, 2009)
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 04:20 pm: ||
Fixable without case splitting?
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 04:28 pm: ||
I thought that by 2001 the pump gears were updated.
Are they still failure prone / wear item? Seems to me a couple miles
without oil pressure must be real bad on top end.
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 04:46 pm: ||
I would think so if the crank passes muster and the bearings ( primary and cam ends ) pass intense visual and tactile scrutiny, the slightest roughness or discoloration is grounds for a tear down.
the spec for crank bearing inspection paraphrased from the fsm.
the rods should move smoothly the connecting rod should fall under its own weight, have no descernable roughness, no detectable play (pulling on them) and a minute amound of side to side motion for the big end. the crank shaft bearings allow a small amount of play in the side to side plane, the cam end needle bearings need the closest scrutiny as they were in glitter central, the bottom end is a judgment call..
If I were in your shoes, and I could afford the parts, pistons & rings 1 size over, total go through the boxes clean the push rods as they carry oil up and can be plugged,
new lifters and close inspection of the lifter bores in the case. close inspection of the oilite bushings any signs of wear or tracking replace them all ( requires tear down ) replace cams ( UPGRADE if desired ) replace oil pump if damaged (upgrade here is good, do the bronze gear!)
clean the oil tank thuroghly, replace the lines
consider flushing the crank with light oil and then oiling it prior to inspection
fitting the bearings to the crank / cases looks to be a bit of safe cracking, If you purchase and do a total over haul to zero time or even extensive repair you will have a known good engine.
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 05:00 pm: ||
btw I recently priced an X1 crank 700+$$
thats why I suggested a 2k offer, metal bits the size of a grain of sand if they got into the big end bearing,
repair or replace the crank
check KYrocket he just did a crank replacement, the oil is fed from the pump through a galley feeding the lifters and one end of the crank, the other bearings / bushings in the gear case are splash lubed
I presume that metal was fed to the lifters thats why I suggested replacement as they are not repairable
IF money is tight, IRAN
inspect, and replace as needed.
the top end gasket kit is about 100$ retail.
rings are about 30$ per set std size
hone is 25$ per jug localy
lifters are expensive too, about 180$ per set of 4
but spend and do minimal work and you may get to do it over if the bottom end gives up due to damage
these are my thoughts good luck either way.
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 05:01 pm: ||
Oil pump gears were up dated '06 IIRC
its the 2 mile run home that conserns me, If the PO had stopped and shut down, thats different.
any top end damage ?
(Message edited by Oldog on July 16, 2009)
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 05:32 pm: ||
The issues with the oil pump gear were not really resolved completely until like 2008. They made a big jump forward in 2006 though, with the new berillium pinion gear and secret update to the oil pump. That fix is probably "good enough", but the updated oil system (2008 I think... fatter cam cover) really put the last nail in the problems coffin.
I wouldn't buy a bike that had a failed pump without expecting to split the cases to make it right again. And I would be factoring in risk that the cases may not even be salvagable... when that gear breaks, its a really bad thing.
On the other hand, some people have recovered from it without out a case split. You roll your dice and take your chances.
You can limit risk by figuring what you could part the bike out and sell it for... the difference between that and your buying price is the amount of $$ risk you are taking. Lots of labor either way though.
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 06:01 pm: ||
I got a rough but running X1 for 900 dollars, I would offer no more than 1400 for a bike with unknown work required
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 06:27 pm: ||
I (over)paid $2k for a low mileage X1 knowing only that it would not turn over, and that the front spark plug was smashed.
Bought it sight unseen, had it shipped from Florida to Oklahoma, and found this:
After $5k in parts, paint, and polishing, and a LOT of hours I am left with this:
Was it a waste of money? Yes.
Do I regret it? No, and neither will you.
Buy that bike as cheap as possible and use the opportunity to build something exactly the way you want it. Once you've touched every working part of the bike you'll have total peace of mind as to it's reliability. And as for that perma-grin that everyone gets on a Buell.. it's 10x better while riding one that you've rebuilt from the ground up.
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 08:59 pm: ||
I tell ya Pk, that is an astonishing bike. Absolutely beautiful.
|Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 09:05 pm: ||
It's even more impressive in person and Pk is a great guy, can't wait to see the S3 get done though. Get Busy...