| Author | Message | ||
     Oldog |
Frank the comment was not aimed specificaly at you, it was broader in nature, it takes a gentleman to publicaly admit a mistake though, from my own POV We all have "fallen short" We all agree that the problem is real and exasperating to deal with. | ||
| Cyclonemick |
I just reamed out my 79d at work today and will be installing tonight! I'll let you know how it turns out! | ||
| Cyclonemick |
Out of curiosity? What exactly does the Stenzel bar do?? I can see from the pic's in the link it is some type of brace, But what is this to prevent? | ||
| Sfmc_x1 |
After replacing the front iso's on my X1 for the third time in 12 months I'll chime in... Key phrase in this thread i've seen so far is preventative mainenance! Failure of the front isolator in my experience can be attributed to a number of things. 1: How the bike is ridden. 2: Rider weight and/or riding with a passenger. 3: Status of the rear shock. 4: Status of the rear isolators. The rubber iso's on the machine just like your tires are consumables and need to be checked and replaced at the first indication of unsafe use. Tires ie: low tread. iso's ie: Pronounced vibration. When riding aggressively or two-up the iso's are subject extreme torsional load and heat. When the rear shock has leaked all its fluid it no longer has the ability to dampen the load described by riding aggressively and will exagerate/accelerate the iso wear(front and rear). Vibration creates friction, friction creates heat, all these will cause the premature failure of the iso's. I aplaude Buell for inovative design, but the underslung rear pull shock is directly relative to front iso failure/and broken motor mounts/sheared motor mount bolts. Over time those component can not withsatnd the downward forces most Buell riders here place on their machines. The front iso's i've gone through have all came in a little Buell parts baggie, either from American Sport Bike or the local dealership, I have not purchased one that I've had to ream out, and would not consider buying one if it did not dimensionaly match the one that came out of the bike. I will state that Buells (tubers) are tempramental machines and if you ride them hard they will let you know, also nothing lasts forever, but with "preventative maitenance" the bike will last as long as you do, and when one part begins to fail it may be a good idea to service the rest (front/rear iso's, inspect condition of shock). Get to know your machine and purchace ideal upgrades (billet motor mount, hardened bolts, stenzel bar, aftermarket shock. Whatever), get some buddies, a 12 pack of beer and get your hands dirty. Learn to enjoy this portion of your ownership experience, the more you do it the easier and faster these service replacements become. This board has a wealth of knowledge, use it to your advantage... then go ride! Eric SF/CA 2 KC/MO | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Skinner we differ in opinions but your last paragraph is very true. Like I said too Court, "SORRY FOR CALLING YOU OUT" He readily said he doesn't mind my post Oldog, that is exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks to all and I am sorry if this post annoyed anyone. BILL | ||
| Oldog |
Eric Excellent post I agree on almost all points except I do not think that the shock condition ( unless locked up ) makes much difference Motor mounts should last for a great deal longer than tires, my back tire lasts about 6~8K miles my motor mount should last for 40 K miles or at least 3 or 4 years, not 1500 miles or 6 months .. the motor mount hanger should not fail in the numbers that have been seen, however like all things mechanical, get out the wrenches and fix-it or sell it your choice, from the porch the old dog. | ||
| Sfmc_x1 |
Thanks Oldog. I think I was using the comparison of tires to iso's as rubber consumables, and should be checked often. I know that the only thing that saved me when the stock motor mount broke and the engine dropped was the left side chassis tube that showed up on the 1999 and later frames. The front cast motor mount is garbage. The left frame tube... Speculative in the design whether it was for more chassis rigidity or secretly for motor mount saftey that it was finally implemented that year, when an aftermarket unit was available for the older tubers... maybe both? But thats just me being a conspiracy theorist. I'm fairly certain when the shock kicked the bucket the repetative bottoming out detroyed the rear iso's and excesive jarring and yanking on the front of the motor shortened the front iso's life. I would admit to being wrong on that conclusion. But true enough, when all parts are fresh and installed, no one should be having premature failure. Stay on top of your bike, when its on the road... and when its in the garage! | ||
| Oldog |
Reading: related to the "head mount" One of the most celebrated examples of temperature effects on bolts is with Grade 8.2 bolts. At room temperatures, Grade 8.2 and SAE J429 Grade 8 bolts have similar properties. But, Grade 8.2 bolts are made of low carbon boron steel. The Grade 8 fastener is a medium carbon alloy steel. The boron steel has a lower tempering temperature (minimum 650°F compared to the 800°F for the Grade 8) and is not intended for use in higher temperatures. Every bolting material has a temperature above which it would be unsafe to use. Often times this is referred to as the fasteners high temperature service limit. Although we saw that the fastener loses strength as the temperature increases, the service limit is usually determined by an occurrence known as stress relaxation. A fastener is tightened in the joint. This action places the bolt under significant stress. The length of the bolt does not increase. The joint and the nut will determine the length. Once exposed to a higher temperature, the bolt begins to relieve itself of a significant amount of the stress. Since the stress and the preload are related, this implies that the clamping force with which the bolt holds the joint together will be significantly reduced. One of the most problematic temperature effects that must be taken into account when designing a joint is differential thermal expansion between the bolt and joint members. As the temperature rises, all bolt and joint materials expand, but not all at the same rate. As an example, aluminum will expand about twice as much as some carbon steel fasteners. If using a SAE J429 Grade 8 fastener to clamp an aluminum joint, we would expect to see a significant increase in the tension of the bolts, which would increase the clamping force as the temperature increases. This reaction could damage the joint or gasket material or even break the bolt. If we were using bolts that would expand more than the joint, we could loose our preload and clamping force. It should be recognized that differential expansion problems could occur even if the fastener and the joint are made of the same material. If the bolt and the joint heat up at different rates, the corresponding thermal expansion will also cause the bolt and the joint to expand differently. There are various other temperature-related effects, which must be considered when designing a bolted joint. Two of the more common occurrences that are very closely related are creep and stress relaxation. If a constant load is applied to a fastener and we raise the service temperature and the temperature places the bolt in its “creep range,” the bolt will begin to stretch even if the load is well within the fastener’s 19 mechanical limits. Eventually, the bolt may stretch to a point where it may not be able to support the load and will fail. Creep is defined as the slow increase in length of a material under a constant, heavy load. Stress relaxation is very similar. However, we are now dealing with the steady loss of stress in a loaded part with fixed dimensions. We place a significant amount of stress on a bolt when we tighten it in the joint. If exposed to a high temperature, the bolt begins to relieve itself of some of the stress and we can lose our preload. The behavior of the bolted joint will depend, to a large extent, on the clamping force on the joint in service. This may be significantly different than the clamping force created during assembly. Thermal effects can change the initial clamping force significantly. Therefore, these effects should be a real consideration when originally designing the joint. Usually we would like to employ the highest clamping force the parts can withstand. This may compensate for some of the anticipated losses. There are, however, several limitations to the assembly preload. Too much force on the joint may damage joint members and gaskets or encourage stress cracking. | ||
| Riviera |
Regarding the front iso design, does it have to be a bonded, floating unit? The iso is just to provide vertical flex correct? Couldn't it consist of a flat center plate with an oversize hole at the center. Then place an appropriate size/durometer circular rubber spacer/ring/donut on each side, followed by a matching OD steel washer. This assembly being held secure by the clamping force that attaches it to the engine mount. The center plate would still be mounted to the frame. The center mounting bolt must never contact the center plate. | ||
| 13was13 |
Just a thought after I had to reinstall my OEM muffler - forgive me if it has previously been discussed: Isn't the very heavy hanging original muffler a constructional element for counteracting engine movement? That balancing element is diminished or lost if you replace the muffler with an lightweight aftermarket one or if the isolator in the muffler mount is worn. | ||
| Court |
>>>Isn't the very heavy hanging original muffler a constructional element for counteracting engine movement? No it is not. | ||
| Kalali |
"Sorry, its already on the bike. Put it in tonight." Damn, you guys make it sound so easy... The main thing holding me back is the 110lb-ft on that center bolt. How did you do it? | ||
| Phelan |
It's pretty simple if you have a big torque wrench  . | ||
| Skntpig |
I know you can't fit the torque wrench in there because the frame is in the way. I did mine by hand with a box end wrench and it's probably not tight enough. Someone mentioned using a crows foot attachment but I haven't tried. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_10153_12605?keyw ord=crows+foot | ||
| Jmkybf |
I used a 6" extension and a deep well socket and was able to get the torque wrench head in by the oil filter. | ||
| Tsm81xtreme |
I have a question that is a little off topic. I am fairly new to this site, and I like it very much. Having said that, I have seen Court's name mentioned queit a few time's on here, in a way that appear's he has something to do with the Buell Company. So who is Court, and does he have anything to do with Buell. Now in reply to this thread ( sort of ), I love my Buell, I can understand why people are aggravated by this problem. However, I would put up with the problem for the chance to ride my bike. I think there should be better replacement parts that last longer. Sadly, there isnt, but IMHO, the joy of riding my bike keeps me owning my Buell and not selling it and buy another brand. Good thread guys, Great site, I appreciate all of the people in this little Buell community. See ya, Matthew Tully | ||
| Kalali |
Thanks folks for the input. Really appreciate it. "was able to get the torque wrench head in by the oil filter." So, you did it from the bottom? I think most (if not all) the other folks did it from the top. At least that is how I understood it. Sorry if I am belaboring the point but just want to get it right... Thanks again for bearing with a rookie wrencher. | ||
| Ebutch |
Court: King of Buell Iron Butts!  | ||
| Buellistic |
SO WHO IS Court ??? "25 years of BUELL" book which you'll should get and read ... Get it from www.WhiteHorsePress.com ... Court is on page 41 back row 5th from the right, on page 74 two pictures of him riding his 1995 S2T, and on page 127 on the right ... He is a BUELL "NUT" as most of us are ... Nice people and well worth a chat with if your paths cross ... MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Naustin |
Fast1075: Thanks for the input... I'll be happy when somebody reports that they've made it to 10,000 miles on the 79d in a tuber, but at this point, its good to know at least you made it to 1K with the Blast.  How many miles did you have when the isolator failed before you installed the -79D? | ||
| F_skinner |
Who is Court? Only Court can answer that. I would say: Buell rider/enthusiast Writer Construction Worker Story Teller Marine Family man To keep it on topic; a guy that rode a Buell in 44 states without an isolator failure just to prove a point. A guy that brings coffee out to a bunch of Buell riders at a campsite. A guy that can make stuff appear for a stranded rider. Someone that will talk to your ear off and get you excited about Buells when your enthusiasm starts to wain. My friend | ||
| Ebutch |
About 62,000 miles on my S3 original Buell.New Drage we shall see.#DS243515 | ||
| Gowindward |
I always torque from the lower side going between the forks with the torque wrench and using a deep well socket. I have to turn the forks side to side as I tighten and then ratchet back for another bite until I hit the torque. It's simple enough. That's for the 110 ft-lb bolt. | ||
| Skntpig |
Anyone with an NHRS front mount get it to work from below? | ||
| Court |
>>>A guy that can make stuff appear for a stranded rider. Hahahahaha . . . that's happened hundreds of times over the past 22 years. Two "funnest" examples were the Italian rider who was stranded and sent me a text message telling me the Italian dealers were closed for "holiday". An hour later a dealer arrived from Spain . . . case closed. Another was the Badwebber who had lots of "on the road" problems culminating in "tripus interuptus". Wrote me a nice letter and month later he got a check for over $1,000 for hotels, U-haul, meals, etc. Buell is an amazing company. It was when there were like 6 of us riding Buell and it is now. | ||
| Davegess |
Court is a phantom. For years we have been dressing up various ex-Buell employees in the Court costume and fooling the public. The all carry a small voice synthesizer that allow them to duplicate that famous twang and convince you all that Court is a real person. Meanwhile the actual prototype of Court dozes under the beach umbrella on his small island while naked native girls provide him with drinks. He has not attended an actual Buell event in 20 years, all the appearances have been the impostors. | ||
| Naustin |
Geez, I'm all star-struck up in here! Court and Dave back to back! Seriously, let keep this thread on topic. None of us are going to have any dealers fly in from Spain with magic parts to rescue us on a Sunday afternoon, or see $1000 checks in the mail. A backdoor opinion from the factory on the long-term viability of the -79d as a replacement part given the original design specs and requirements of the Tube-Frame bikes and the Blast vs. the specs of the -79D part itself would be much more helpful. | ||
| Court |
Good point. I deleted the extraneous posts. Go get'em ! | ||
| Naustin |
Court, I know you are in a position to help people, and everyone appreciates that. What we need most right now is information. I believe there is a problem in the manufacture of the L0501.2 part, and there is ample evidence in the pages of the archives on this site. The -79d appears to be a viable alternative, and close to the original Buell specification. It seems to me that you would be the person most likely to be able to find out just how close the -79d's actual specs are to Buells original design specification for the front isolator, and thus provide critical information to aid this conversation. (Message edited by naustin on July 15, 2009) | ||
| Easy_rider |
+1 on Naustin's post. |
