| Author | Message | ||
     Cyclonemick |
Recently I have been following threads about torn isolators and broken motor mounts, Partially because of curiosity and partly because my bike has quite a few miles and figured I should educate myself. After work yesterday I decided to take a look at my front isolator and the top looked great! Then I checked out the bottom and it was completely mutilated! It was ripped vertically and horizontally what looks to be at least 3/4 the way around the isolator! Luckily I did not damage to the mount but still iritating!! Does any one know If you can replace front rubber without loosening or removing front mount? I do have a manual but have not checked it out yet since I noticed it yesterday and am curretly at work! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
The trick is to pop the tank off and attack the mounting bolts from behind. You shouldn't mess with the mounts. REMEMBER TO HAVE A JACK UNDER THE ENGINE! | ||
| Cyclonemick |
So you are saying I do, have to loosen motor mount bolts? If I just have to loosen the bolts a jack would not be required? Right? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Leave the two big ones that go to the head in place. There are three bolts you will be playing with: The huge one in the middle the two smaller ones on the side. Once this is removed, NOTHING will be holding up your engine. make sure to use a hydraulic jack under the front of the engine to remove the tension on the mount before you remove the bolts. Remember that you are not jacking up the bike. Just holding the engine. The front shock mount is a good place for the jack. You can use the jack to line up the holes so you can get the bolts in. It's not rocket science but it is a pain in the ass the first time you do it. It might help you out if you clip some wire ties on the harness so you can move it aside to get at the bolts. | ||
| Cyclonemick |
I see! When I looked at it last night(only about 5 min cuz i burnt the sh%# out of my forearm) I only noticed the big bolt in the middle! I did not see the other 2, That makes since now! Thanks for the tips! I checked out American Sport Bike and their description for oem parts basically said they were junk!! Do you have part # for aftermarket isolators? | ||
| Road_thing |
Be careful where you put the jack under the motor--the aluminum cases are fragile. Never mind how I know... Nate's suggestion about using the shock mount is a good one. rt | ||
| Psycrow |
Here are the various ISOs available. Current Buell OEM "L0501.2" - too Soft will not last Current Harley "16207-79D" - made for Big Twin and center sleeve must be drilled out to fit. "DS243515" Drag Specialties - Very hard rubber causes increased vibes. Two BadWeb members have had a mount brake shortly after installing this....coincidence?!? it can be ordered here - http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Prod uct.jsp;jsessionid=OKIF2ZBQPFH01LA0WTVSM4VMDK0NCIV0?store =&skuId=H14462 and JP cycles has one too no indication on the site who makes it. http://www.jpcycles.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PID=430 0140&cs=All Hope this helps.. Psy | ||
| Dpg |
I just finished this one and only thing I prefer to do is to use a small scissor jack I had from a Toyota instead of a bottle jack. Scissor jack's head had a notch that fit well on that front shock mount which seemed more stable than the round puck on the bottle jack I have. That long bolt gets torqued to 100-110 ft. lbs. and a torque wrench will not fit on either the bolt head or nut. Only solution to that is to get one of those open end wrench heads that have a socket hole and use an extension for the top nut. Safe ride, Gary in Oaktown | ||
| Cyclonemick |
Thanks guys! I have a 2.5 ton jack with a nice round base that should fit under the shock mount nicely! Has anyone compared the isolator from J&P with the OEM one? I have ruled out the OEM but not sure where to go from there! I'm temted to get the one from Drag Specialties but a broken mount is not in my summer plans! Any Info on Badwebers that have had problems with HD isolator that has to be drilled? | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Your doomed. When mine breaks ill replace it and sell the bike I guess. I want a 06 - 07 fxdwg too anyway. | ||
| Texastechx1 |
when mine goes, I'm replaceing them ALL. would give me the change to do some other things as well while the motor was out/loose. | ||
| Kalali |
Mickey, thanks for posting the question. I am in the same exact boat as you; the thing looks great from the top but separated from the center shaft when you look from the bottom. I have not heard any feedback regarding the J&P part but it looks like an "older" version (B vs. D) of the infamous 16207-79 part number from Buell. I just hope mine lasts until the the end of the riding season... | ||
| Sloppy |
The -79D is such a huge improvement in design that it is the one and only to use. All you need do is drill to a 1/2" Don't use the D-Washer, but do use a washer. If you don't want to invest in the appropriate tools then take to your local auto / machine shop and have them do it for you. Oh, and make sure you have an FSM! (Message edited by sloppy on July 08, 2009) | ||
| Sportyeric |
I've got an FSM!!!!! http://www.rof.com/product_p/2290-pq.htm But anyway.... why no D-washer? | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
because the -79 mount is a customized butch job repair and a diff design mount. Since the factory doesnt care about the problem this is what people are resorting to. Yeah read the manual and laugh as you through it away in the trash. | ||
| Cyclonemick |
FSM? Factory Service Manual??? If so I have one of those! I'm assuming on the HD part that you are saying to drill the rubber out in the center Bolt hole to 1/2 inch? Sloppy: Have you personally done this mod? If so how's it working out? How many miles since change? And do you know of anyone else who has had good results with this method? Thanks for all the help guys! I really want to make an informed decision on this, so all comments are appreciated! I just want to Ride! | ||
| Oldog |
James Ramsey has done this mod, and has about 2500 miles on it todate, I phone him regulary to catch up and see how He's doing, the drilled mount seems to be better about not tramsmitting quite so much vibe. the D washer is a critical safety element and serves as a fail safe should the iso fail catastrophicaly, I would not omit it the drag specialties part "MAY" ba a factor in the stock mount failures, as it is harder, the stock mount is not too sturdy any way, if the fasteners bed in the aluminum it fails any way, My 0.02 would be change the bolts and the rubber mount to the drag specalties, consider a billet mount from American Sport Bike. if you are willing to try it get the 79 d and drill it up to 1/2" I would not omit the d washer but its your bike. | ||
| Skntpig |
I think the issue with the D washer is the bottom side that contacts the top of the iso. It has a recessed area that material from the stock mount fills. The new mount doesn't protrude up. One solution is to fab a washer that fits in there so the D washer is flat on the bottom instead of dished. The other solution is to put a large flat washer on top in lieu of the D washer. | ||
| Sloppy |
Did the -79D mod myself and my son did the second one. It is very simple. But if you're not comfortable then have your local machine shop do it. The mark of a gentlemen is to recognize your limitations but still have the job done properly. It would be great if Buell would concvince the accountants to make this -79D part with a 1/2" sleeve, but I doubt if there would be a profit in it for HD. But it would be a great opportunity for a smaller OEM replacement company (like DS?) to tool up for this. But we don't have that choice at this point in time. You need to either omit the D-washer and use a washer OR get a spacer milled to the correct thickness to use the D-washer. If you just use the D-washer alone you WILL get an incorrect torque reading on the fastener (very bad!) as the D-washer will deform rather than the bolt / nut thread interface! The -79D has a safety washer built INTO it, so all you need do is put a washer under the nut to prevent galling this safety washer. The purpose of the D-washer is to support the engine in case the metal sleeve looses its bond with the rubber (which the OEM part does do). Look at the -79D isolator at your parts store and you'll see. (The metal washer on the -79D faces up). At this point we don't have enough data to say that it will last as long as the original isolators, but we do have data to say that it lasts longer than the OEM replacement part and doesn't transmit vibrations like the DS part. (Message edited by sloppy on July 09, 2009) | ||
| Cyclonemick |
Thank you for the insight! I believe I will go the route of the Hd -79d and probably just use a flat washer the same size dia of the D-washer. I am currently at work so I can't see the assembly but your suggesting on top replace d -wash with flat Wash-(so it couldn't fall all the way through incase of a catastrophic failure) and then put an additional washer on the bottom side to protect BUILT-INTO washer? Is there not already a washer on the bottom side of the stock assembly? | ||
| Oldog |
But it would be a great opportunity for a smaller OEM replacement company (like DS?) to tool up for this. DS DOES NOT make these items some one else does, per the DS specs, there are 2 suppliers I can find Barry controls and King, both companies make these as a division, you can spec and order them. ( I have no Idea of minimum qtys )} | ||
| Drhacknstine |
Ok you probably are not going to be able to squeeze the D washer in on a 79D mount. The 79D has a built in washer,larger than the D washer Buell used. I gave it a shot, but took it out since no threads protruded out of the nut when when tight (used a common thick washer i had laying around as a space holder). The genuine HD mount I got had MADE IN CHINA on the packaging(USE H D QUALITY PARTS my A**). Drilling was a snap. Don't hog it, drill a small amount, let the sleeve cool ( so it dosen't get too HOT and destroy the new rubber) and repeat. | ||
| Sloppy |
There is a washer on the bottom already - all you need to add is a washer on the top between the isolator and nut. The OEM part just uses a sleeve that is bonded to the rubber and hence the rubber is only in a SHEAR load; whereas the -79D uses a one piece sleeve & washer so the rubber is loaded both in SHEAR and in COMPRESSION. | ||
| Cyclonemick |
Gotcha! Now I just need to find one in stock! Since It's a HD part should have them by the boatload! LOL!! I think ultimataly I will purchase the Mount from American Sport Bike and pick up the DS Iso's but since I just dropped a new motor in my Ranger and ordered a Corbin for the Cyclone, my "extra" spending cash is reaching a minimum! Hopefully the 79D will last me long enough untill I can save a few pennies back for the Shiny hardware! Thanks a bunch fella's! I'll keep you all posted on progress, Keep your fingers crossed for me....You may be next! | ||
| Sportyeric |
Nice explanation, Sloppy. Thank you. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I for one am positive that the 79D is far superior to the original...the integrated top washer addresses the deadly shear. If it will tear up...it will tear up on my bike...so far, so good...I plan on a couple of hundred miles on Saturday of ride it like I stole it action...I killed the last stock iso in less than 500 miles. | ||
| Kalali |
"The purpose of the D-washer is to support the engine in case the metal sleeve looses its bond with the rubber (which the OEM part does do)." So this begs the question that is the "separation" between the sleeve and the rubber a critical failure mode. In other words, is it "necessary" to replace the ISO ASAP if the only failure is the separation? I guess I am just looking for an excuse to delay the job of replacing the ISO. Thanks. | ||
| Sloppy |
If you are worried about the engine falling out of the top mount then the answer is "no" - the D-washer prevents that from happening. However (oooh, I love that word), since the front engine mount, rear shock, swingarm isolators, swing arm heim joint, front engine heim joint and middle engine heim joint are all designed to work in unison, you are taking a risk that a complete failure of one isolator will put additional stress on another mount. So the question would be - do you want to change the front isolator OR wait and hope that you won't have to change the front isolator AND some other combination of mounts somewhere else on the bike that will be more expensive and take longer than just replacing the front isolator... of all the engine mounts to change, the front is the easiest to replace (this could very well have been designed this way!). Like I tell my boss - Mechanics ALWAYS get time to work on the equipment, but Production gets to decide if it's SCHEDULED or UNSCHEDULED work... From personnal experience, I will say that there is a significant difference in the handling of the bike when the front isolator goes out - to the point that I didn't enjoy riding the bike. Ergo, I parked it. It is not a long or difficult fix so I wouldn't delay it... | ||
| 12mpghwy |
why not just put a thick washer that fits over the sleeve between the rubber and D washer on the old style mount. Wouldn't that put the bushing into compression just like the -D mount. If it were me and I was really broke or really didn't feel like taking it apart, I would get a large 25 cent washer from home depot and cut a section out of it. Jack up the engine cases and slip it under the D washer to take up the space and put the engine back into alignment with the other parts. (Message edited by 12mpghwy on July 09, 2009) | ||
| Drhacknstine |
Didn't the 79D mount have the Washer built in to the top of the sleeve, making it much to large to fall through even if the rubber fails.  |
