| Author | Message | ||
     12mpghwy |
Has anyone tried this on a buell? One of my bikes has a reed valve system, well the read valves just act as check valves into the exhaust that cause the exhaust to draw fresh air in as an emission control device. It pulls about 1-4in of vacuum through a 1/2in hose. What I did on that bike is hook up the crank vent to that system with 2 check valves inline. One that prevents exhaust from flowing back into the crankcase in case the system fails... And one that allows pressure out to atmosphere in case there is more pressure in the crankcase then there is vacuum created by the exhaust. This whole setup costs a few dollars... On this particular bike. There is always a slight vacuum in the crankcase, even after the bike cools. In case you have never heard of it this is not a new idea: http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/52210/10002/-1 http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-forced-inductio n-nitrous/1450082-exhaust-crankcase-evacuation-it- works.html http://www.bestmufflers.com/Information/CarPics/co mmodore_under1.jpg | ||
| Phelan |
What keeps the exhaust from creating a vacuum that steals your oil as you ride? How is the carbon collecting at the not-so-polished joints of your exhaust going to affect your power? Until I can see the proven benefits, I'm a bit skeptical. | ||
| Texastechx1 |
drag cars use that all the time... it does work but only if you're full throttle (90% of a drag cars life). but mayeb this reed system you speak of could make it street friendly? me thinks that someone will have to try it before we find out. | ||
| 12mpghwy |
Gravity prevents the vacuum from "stealing" the oil. As with every car and bike on the road with positive crankcase ventilation. As for the idea that carbon would build up inside the exhaust to the point where it would have a negative effect, thats ridiculous. It doesn't happen on diesels, not even old ones that puff out smoke which is carbon particulate matter and leak tons of oil past the seals of their old turbos. (Message edited by 12mpghwy on June 18, 2009) (Message edited by 12mpghwy on June 18, 2009) | ||
| 12mpghwy |
As to the vehicle needing to be at full throttle, thats not true how much vacuum can be pulled at what RPM range is a factor of where in the header the valve is placed, what the firing order is and what the end of valve is shaped like. This works just fine on street cars, and should work just fine on a bike. Follow the links at the top post. | ||
| 12mpghwy |
Proof that this works on an idling streetcar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGrx2rvIxJ0 | ||
| Phelan |
You don't think a diesel with 300,000 miles has less power than new? I say it does, and bet the exhaust is covered in carbon build-up. I think this is one area where they can lose power over time. My dad's FXD has 30,000 miles and has crazy carbon deposits on his exhaust ports. (Message edited by Phelan on June 18, 2009) | ||
| 12mpghwy |
Every stock motorcyle and car for years has sucked the crancase spooge into the engine. Carbon buildup simply is not commonly a problem at least in terms of engine rebuild intervals its not. How many people have 200k+ miles on any harley engine. I replaced the rusted exhaust on my diesel with 214000 miles, it smokes every time the pedal is pressed hard and it looses about a quart of oil into the exhaust through the turbo and also into the intake every few thousand miles. The carbon simply did not build up in quantity to cause problems. It was no thicker than a piece of paper. The intake manifold on the other hand fills up with crap in front of the egr valve. I would guess that it has something to do with the temprature. | ||
| Loki |
What are ya gonna do with the vent line from the cam box to the oil tank? What about the the Big push and Big draw as both pistons go up and down together. What about the little umbrella valves. On a pre Xb rocker box set-up. Or is that where ya plumb the system into the motor. No matter what anyone says. This system turns your motor into a total loss oiling system. The air circulating thru the motor has oil in it. This is a form of Positive Crankcase Ventilation. Just like that little PCV thingy plugged into the intake tract on your car/truck. My old KZ750 had these reed valves you speak of on the cam cover. Their purpose was Positive Crankcase Ventilation also. This system also drew fresh air into the crankcase from the airbox. If you ever removed the valves from the cam cover. One side was oily and the other was nothing but coked oil sludge. Block off plates were sold to rid us of this system. Racers tapped and plugged the ports in the heads. Wanna talk about Yamahas XJ intake tracts? Point about the header draw evac system. Just not worth it for a street motor. | ||
| 12mpghwy |
What I am going to do is leave the umbrella valves in place and also leave in place the tube joining the vents from my aftermarket intake. And weld the 45 degree bung from the kit below into the very top of the colector, with a y pipe also connecting to the primary vent. http://www.jegs.com/p/Dynatech/Dynatech-O2-Sensor- Pan-E-Vac-Kit/750022/10002/-1 If this is a total loss oil system then every motor on vehicle has a total loss oil system. Because as you said it the air has oil in it an all of them have some form of crank case vent or PVC valve. This is going to take me no more than 1 hour to install and 25 dollars, and who knows it may not work but if it does it will certainly be worth it. After I install the kit I will post picture including wether it works or not. | ||
| Phelan |
What the hey, I say go for it. If it works for you, great. I have XB rockers now and I don't have much if any spooge so I don't see a problem with a catchcan setup. | ||
| Loki |
You have a plan, go for it. Let us know the results. I would/might make this one suggestion though. Do not hook the primary vent into this. No purpose/reason to attempt to hold he primary/trans in a state of negative pressure. | ||
| Loki |
other discussions out there on this also. Even if it did evacuate the normal blow-by and actually did lower the crank case pressure to a few inches of water its not nearly enough evacuation to even start to show a HP increase. You have to pull a lot of vacuum in a crank case to see any hp on a dyno. Most of the benefits are actually from the reduction in windage because of the dry sump in combination with the lower air density in the crank case. On a typical all out race V8 engine with a dry sump and an evacuated crank case you see about 5-6 hp. That's it !! We have run engines with and with out the vacuum pump running and its not much of a difference 5-6 hp that's it. On a smaller engine like these bike motors with 1/4 of the piston area you can expect even less of a HP gain. And of course this is assuming that you are pulling the crank case pressure way down with a strong vane pump. | ||
| Loki |
as an aside to this discussion. One of the reasons the pro drag race engines use this because of the ring packs(radial) used. They need it for the rings to seal properly. | ||
| Buellistic |
BUELLers: Been running a PVC valve set-up in my timing plug hole for years ... Use'ed a PVC VALVE out of a CHEV. Sprint Metro 3 CYL. engine(close as "i" could get to the CI of my engine) ... It does and will stop base gasket weeping ... Have a 107,870.9 mile as of the last ride on my base gaskets ... MAY THE LONG LASTING BUELL BE WITH YOU !!! | ||
| Fast1075 |
Thank you Loki....you hit the nail on the head. The low tension rings used in some race engines will not seal without the evac system. Go take a close look at a Pro Stock bike..most of them run an evac system using an electrically powered vacuum pump. Again it is because of the ring package and it also helps a bit with windage. And I will most likely try the exhaust evac if I ever get around to building a 44 cubic inch Blast motor... (Message edited by fast1075 on June 19, 2009) | ||
| Skntpig |
buellistic...I would like to see a pic of your PCV system. Sounds like a good idea. | ||
| Limitedx1 |
"No matter what anyone says. This system turns your motor into a total loss oiling system. The air circulating thru the motor has oil in it. This is a form of Positive Crankcase Ventilation. Just like that little PCV thingy plugged into the intake tract on your car/truck." this statement makes the least sense i have ever read........ total loss? where do you think it goes when it enters the pcv system....right into your motor. this is why a 150k mile small block intake manifold is full of gunk. the pcv system in a car basically draws the air/oil mixture inside the case out and into the intake in turn burning it in your combustion chamber - purely for emmisions reason...... i see no problem with sucking the spooge out and burning it inside the exhaust......although depending on what muffler you have it will either fill the packing with oil.....or if you have a force pipe it would blow all the spooge all over the rear of your bike. if i didnt have a force pipe i would not mind trying to dump the spooge in the exhaust.... | ||
| Loki |
Yea, I went overboard for dramatic effect. To say that you do not lose any oil with this system is just as idiotic. It is a system designed for racing applications to promote ring seal. With a specific style of ring pack. Not something you need on a street motor. Yep, it goes back into the motor. Right into the intake tract to be burned. For emissions purposes. Not for lubrication or cooling. So the oil is lost is it not. Now granted the loss is gradual and minimal. | ||
| 12mpghwy |
I never said that it wouldn't loose any oil but there is a whole lot of difference between that and having what one would descibe as a total loss oil system. I had a few hours today so I set it up as a proof of concept with some spare parts I had in the garage. It does work, at idle it draws noticible vaccum, but the check valve may be bad, a little pressure can be felt on and off with vacuum at certain rpm ranges. With it hooked up I didn't see any oil come out the base gasket, which has hapened every time I let the bike run long enough to warm up, granted I only ran it for 5 minutes. It was made using an old converter check valve welded into an exhaust band clamp and attached around the header collector with a hole under it. I didn't weld it into the collector because I am going to do that with a 45 degree O2 sensor bung (to point the sensor up) which I was planning to add anyways to use with a wide band O2 sensor in tuning with ECM spy. If I like it I will keep the system in place using the bung, welded to the header, with a fitting made to attach it to a piece of ~1/2 inch copper tube which will be routed up between the engine and tie rod to a check valve, and then to the force intakes case vent. (Message edited by 12mpghwy on June 19, 2009) | ||
| Loki |
Why not just replace the bad base gasket(s)? Replace the top end gaskets with a set of James or Cometic and be done with it. One motor with a set of James. No leaks in two years so far. Another motor with over 20k and no leaks using Cometic. This motor got another set of Cometic with the 1250 kit install. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Note some bikes use reed valves as part of the exhaust gas recirculation back into the intake as part of emissions control. If I remember correctly some KZ Kawasakis did this via the crankcase - ie the exhaust vents into the crankcase which is vented to the airbox. |
