| Author | Message | ||
     Oldironsides |
While i was going 50+mph my bike went down to an idle. When I pulled over the bike would only rev to 1300rpm while in gear. But in neutral it will rev like normal. Put it back in gear and it will only go to 1300-1500rpm. I shut the bike down for awhile and fired it back up and it was ok for a minute then it came right back. seems to be intermitent. Anybody PLEASE help, it has a race ECM and pipe w/a K&N. I appreciate any and all help. God Bless. | ||
| Malott442 |
Any accompanying loud noises, pops? 1st is first, is your gas tank full? I know I know, but I'm starting with the most obvious. Next, check your plugs. If you have spares, replace them. If they are fouled, replace. If they are white, then it is a sign of a bigger problem. Check your plug wires, then your voltage running and shut off. I would guess you might have a clogged fuel filter. With only 1 injector, will still run full rpms. Yeah, I would check your fuel system, charging, ignition, and then wiggle test the wiring harness. But hearing the bike, or at least describing the accompanying noises would help. | ||
| Brinnutz |
What are the symptoms of a bad sidestand switch again? | ||
| Jos51700 |
It would nice to know AFV and such. I'm clueless at this point. | ||
| Stoked |
If this was a fuel injected car I'd first suspect dieing fuel pump or jacked fuel pressure regulator. FI usually needs the fuel pressure to be pretty consistent to run under a load, but not so much when just revving in neutral. But this is a Buell so I can only suggest checking the pressure and bleed down since I haven't had the experience yet of the fuel pump dieing and don't even recall if there's a test valve to plug into with a pressure gage. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Sidestand switch should kill the bike when the clutch is released and the bike is in gear, not just limit rpms. Other than the gear-specific symptoms, this sounds like the bad fuel pump I experienced last year. | ||
| Oldironsides |
No noises just went to an idle. When I'm sitting still with it in gear with no load other than being in gear it still gets bumped down. When I say bumped down to an idle I mean like its going into a limp mode and returns to idle. Like its getting a signal or lack there of. I really appreciate the help Gents. Oh the plugs are new the fuel pump is new and the injectors. All having about 2-3 hundred miles on them. | ||
| Oldironsides |
Jos51700, Help me understand what is the AFV. I'm new to the Buell world. I know Heavy Equipment but not bikes. Thanks Partner. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Does everything sound ok when you turn the key on before you start? Listen for the fuel pump. I'm not positive if a clogged fuel filter would show itself in this case but if the pump sounds labored while it's priming then you have restriction somewhere. | ||
| Oldironsides |
No everything sound as it did before any problems. A dealer told me possibly the TPS or CPS or ECM. CPS(camshaft pos.) I just would like to pinpoint if possible cause money don't grow on trees in Daytona. But I'm on the lookout for them (money trees) | ||
| Bud |
bad diodes ? combined with clutch switch / sidestand switch giving though a voltage just enuff to give the fuel pump some prime ? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If it's different when it's in gear compared to when it's in neutral, It's most likely related to the kickstand switch circuit. Go under the seat and check for corrosion on the fuses and diodes, remembering to reinstall the diodes in the correct direction. If everything looks clen under there, I would try jumpering the connector that goes to the kickstand switch. My switch died at about 40,000 miles. It's been jumpered ever since. | ||
| Malott442 |
Also, that can be misleading. Jumpering the switch is worth a try, but remember that when you put it in gear, it takes more fuel to idle (just a teeny bit) due to the friction of the clutches....... If you have new injectors and fuel pump, do you have a new filter? Are you puffing smoke when you have this problem? Do you puff smoke if you try to throttle it during this problem? In my infinite redneck wisdom, the ultimate way to determine whether it is fuel related or other is to use wd-40, ether, carb cleaner, something flammable to spray into the intake, a little at a time, while trying to see if she comes to life with some throttle play. AFV is a term regarding to your ECM's learning curve, called Adjusted Fuel Values. Your closed loop is affected by your open loop over time at a steady rate of travel. 10+miles at 2500 rpms and steady throttle is what I used to get my AFV's back into acceptable regions. I totally forgot about this. This summer, I replaced the injectors in my Race Stripe x1. The front injector wasn't pumping enough. So, I get down the road and boom, it shuts down like you describe, totally on its face. This is after about 6 minutes of riding. I would have to pull over and wait for it to quit freaking out, no backfiring or such, but it wouldn't go much above idle. I pulled into a gas station (right there) and waited 10 minutes. I was right on the on ramp for the interstate. So I jump on the interstate and push it right up to 65 for 5 miles home. No issues. Next day same thing. SAME DISTANCE. Not as bad symptoms. I make the trip on the interstate 20 miles. Poof, problem is almost gone. A few more trips on the bike, and any stutter was gone. Probably not the most scientific or best way to get it done, but I did what I did. If you have someone around you with ECM spy, see if you can get them to reset your AFV's and TPS. Two more questions: Do you have PCII? And lastly, why do you have a new fuel pump and injectors? Did you run it on a faulty either one.? If so, I will say definitely AFV's need reset..... TPS wouldn't hurt (you're there already, right?) Hope this helps man! Any questions PM me and I'll drop you my phone number. Chasespeed and myself are decently knowledgable in diagnosing most problems involving Buells that have goblins. | ||
| Jos51700 |
The AFV is as described, a value indicating the bikes' self-tuning. If you've replaced the parts 300 miles ago, resetting the AFV is unnecessary at this point, it has done so already, on it's own, and on top of that, the current AFV # is a good indicator of issues. Did you replace the Fuel Filter? | ||
| Jos51700 |
Sidestand switch has NOTHING to do with the issues described. | ||
| Oldironsides |
I'll try to find out about the filter right before I bought it the work waS done. Does anyone know of someone near Daytona Bch. Whats got me confused is whats the relation between, being in gear and not with no load on the bike. when in neutral it perfect. Only in gear does it act up, and its intermittent. I'm replacing all relays and diodes today. Any chance its the ECM. | ||
| Stoked |
The being in gear and not in gear relation is what should make it less confusing. That is usually a fuel supply issue. | ||
| Oldironsides |
Stoked, Please shed some more light and elabberate. I'm havin a bad day and I'm not tracking. To me fuel issues would show up either way whether in gear or not. But my prob. is only when in gear. I'm diggin the help Thanks ALL. | ||
| Stoked |
hmm, as plain as my simple mind could put it would be to say when you put a load on an engine it takes more work for that engine to press against that load. In fact, the amount of work it takes for an engine to free rev only against friction internally in the engine is fractional compared to what it takes to move a 400 to 500 pound bike. The amount of fuel it takes to allow that much more work to be done by the engine is significant. Significant enough to show up in a fuel starved system. The behavior in a FI system is a little more apparent and immediate than carbs because there are no fuel bowls like a carb. A fuel starved carbed motor will typically go through the gears before the bowl empties and it falls on its face. Since a FI system relys on instant supply from the pump, it will fall on its face a lot quicker. And the injectors are also set up to fire at a certain PSI. And that PSI has to be pretty consistent. I just went out and looked at my bike and see there's a port for a pressure gage hook up right below the tank. I assume the manual gives a value the pressure is supposed to stay at. I'm not saying for sure that's what it is, especially since you say it's a new fuel pump. But it would be a good place to check if you can get a gage for it. It could be a number of things. I even seen motors have similar behaviors with bad vacuum leaks. But of course there was a lot more backfiring with it. And also keep in mind, I'm a shade tree mechanic at best. So take it with a grain of salt. | ||
| Stoked |
Oh damn, I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. Are you saying in gear with the clutch in while revving? I was assuming you where saying in gear and trying to ride off in gear. If it doesn't rev while in gear but clutch in and stationary, that is puzzling. I would defer to the bypass the kickstand switch for starters. | ||
| Oldironsides |
Stoked, Yes Sir sitting flatfooted on the ground in gear reving is when it would act up. But would be just fine in neutral. Or when it first happened i was in gear riding. Then I tryed puttin around the neighborhood made it 50' out the drive in gear moving and it did it again. (grain of salt taken) Trust me you know more than I. Thanks Man | ||
| Malott442 |
When you are in neutral, you are spinning the motor, the oil pump, primary chain, and input shaft of tranny. When you put it in gear, with the clutch pulled in, you are also spinning the clutches against an oil bath and in between themselves. This little bit of resistance is noticeable if you've ever tried a hot start in gear vs. neutral or if you paid close attention at red lights. I would say it is fuel related. Two last questions before I'm out of advice before you find out anything else: 1. How far does this bike get ridden at a constant pace since the fuel system work? Constant pace meaning 55+ at a very steady throttle, no racing, stopping, etc.? 2. Have you checked out your local storm front for someone who might have a helping hand or maybe even ECM spy to take out one variable in the equation? I would say first thing first, see what more fuel does to her. I forgot to break down the AFV's. They will ultimately be changed when your fuel injection is relying on your O2 sensor. Engine temp needs to be normal temp, IAT sensor needs to be in working order, above 2500 rpms, and a steady pace. UNDER LOAD. Revving the motor for a certain time will not change them. In stop and go conditions, upon startup, and I believe when being a hooligan, the O2 sensor is not in use. The AFV's fill that void to tell the ECM how much pulse width (how much fuel per stroke) to give the injectors. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is what I've been taught. | ||
| Oldironsides |
Malott442, 1. Every morning at least 6 miles steady on a state road. Most the time 4 times a day and then a few trips a week at about 10-15 miles steady. 2. Not real sure what storm front is. Trying to find someone in Daytona with ECM Spy. 1 last thing, Will the fuel problem make it fall back to an idle at the exact same rpm each time. | ||
| Malott442 |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/37/ 37.html?1227224060 It's on the main page above this section near the top. The storm front is a section that contains areas for each regional rider area. For instance, I am within the confines of NEBO (New England Buellers).... It looks like your closest neighbor is going to be either Orlando or Jacksonville. I wish I still lived in Crystal River, I would ride over on 40 through Silver Springs and make a day trip out of it...... Sorry I moved! LOL Link to Daytona Stormfront: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/37/ 644.html?1227206363 The rpms could be a coincidence. The O2 sensor sounds like it could be a culprit. I would break out the tech manual and test your AIT sensor, your 02 sensor..... Those are free and quick provided you have a multimeter. I still think its fuel related, BUT now that I know you've been on regular long rides, I am leaning towards the 02 harder. The plug is a SON OF A ********* ***** **** **** and a ******* **** *****.... to get to. It's under the battery if my memory serves me right. I would definitely check it.. Well, let us know what you find out. 1. Check the plugs and let me know what color they are. That will tell me a LOT.... Thanks! | ||
| Oldironsides |
I ordered new NGK's a few days ago so they should be in now I will change them Sat. and let you know. From what I understand in the service manual I'm just back probing for voltage on the o2 correct, and checking voltage on the IAT sensor. The service manual I have is a Adobe file and its hard to gather info. Thanks for all the help. | ||
| Malott442 |
I'm digging up my service manual now. The O2 sensor is going to show a voltage range.... The AIT is going to be a certain resistance at a certain temperature. The AIT would not cause this problem, but could be a contributing factor to a multiple component situation. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
An Oxygen sensor wouldn't make the bike behave in the manner you describe. | ||
| Oldironsides |
Natexlh1000, Might you have any ideas, I'm curious as to why no one has said anything about the ECM possibly being the culprit. Thanks for the input Malott442, I'll be getting the Fluke warmed up tonight and tomorrow to do some testing. To all that have replied much THANKS!! I'm glad to know there's help out there. MOVE OUT DRAW FIRE SOLDIER! | ||
| Preybird1 |
Well if you have another ecm to test id do it. Thats how i found out it was the ecm. But i had a spare to test with, My o2 sensor came loose while riding and it shorted out the pins on the ecm at the o2 input. It was causing weird problems. | ||
| Oldironsides |
Well the problem was found to be a few things. 1- bad voltage regulator dont feel it pertained to the problem, 2- TPS was out of wack, had it reset. 3- and the winner is a bad ground to the side stand switch. To all who helped THANK YOU, I learned alot about my own bike because of ya'll. |
