| Author | Message | ||
     Kalali |
I am sure this topic has been discussed adnauseam but I couldn't find it using the search tool. I read/heard two different methods for checking the engine oil (2000 X1) so I just want to make sure what is right. Other than the obvious steps of running the bike for a while and checking the oil level right away, 1) do I keep the bike straight up or on the side stand?, and 2) do I check with engine running or engine shut-off? Thanks. | ||
| Mick |
Stop the engine, and leave it on the stand. | ||
| Redefine420 |
The manuel for my 97 M2 says to have the bike straight up. | ||
| Buellistic |
CHECK ENGINE OIL "101" !!! Just because someone wrote it in a book or service manual means that it is correct or completely correct ??? 1) After a ride(engine a operating temperature), on the sidestand(on level ground), engine running ... 2) Remove the dip stick ... Where the oil is at when you first remove the dip stick indicates is the oil level when running ... Level will be about one inch from top of oil tank ... The OEM oil cap will weep or will actually be forced out of the oil tank if you put too much oil in ... And it will come out head breathers and also help you base gaskets to weep(system is somewhat pressurized when running) ... 2) Now quickly wipe off the dip stick and re-insert into oil tank and remove ... Where the oil in now is the level at idle and should be one inch from the first check level check .. Now a little in-site how the oil gets from the oil tank and back to the oil tank ... The oil pump is a two stage system: When idling it does not suck the oil out as fast as when running and the return side does not put the oil back as fast either ... "BUT" when running the fed side is helped gravity and the return side returning the oil back to the oil tank which helps push the oil through the fed side because a little more is coming back in than going out ... ... | ||
| Easy_rider |
Buellistic, Where does that process come from, and why, oh why, would anyone create a situation where you have to check the engine oil while running? if you put too much oil in ... And it will come out head breathers and also help you base gaskets to weep(system is somewhat pressurized when running) ... Or... you blow the seal between the crankcase and the primary drive and it pukes oil out of the transmission vent! | ||
| Oldog |
Or... you blow the seal between the crankcase and the primary drive and it pukes oil out of the transmission vent! the oil should leave the engine through the head vents first. the crank seal that I replaced was bad because it was hard and the lips had worn , not to mention it was single lip VS 2 lips. In that the caps blow out in the event of an over fill i think that the primary seal is way down the list of possible failres. the alternative method as posted by Buellistic can be used to check the oil level as I just tried it the other day with no difficulties. YMMV} | ||
| Easy_rider |
Once I started puking oil I ran through the KV. Overfill of oil seemed to be a common theme. I recall getting frustrated with several shots of "is that enough" while refilling the oil so it seemed plausible. What was odd is that I haven't seen anything along those lines since I've been roaming the board, so anything more than gassing through head vents or through the cap was not on my list of concerns. My cap is a pretty tight fit and the head vents are plumbed into the intake. If I really overdid it the seal may have taken the hit. The problem showed up right afterwords so it all seems to fit. Just because someone wrote it in Badweb post means that it is correct or partially correct ??? (sorry..... couldn't resist....)  | ||
| Oldog |
No dispute on totaly or partialy correct, just an alternative.  Crank seals are known to go south at about 30k miles due to wear and hardening from heat & additives. the OE seals, mine were single lip which are cheaper and dont last as long. the plug poping out is most common over fill problem posted, The question it begs from me is why does the oil not spew out of the over flow hose from the bag? before launching the cap or blowing the crank seal. | ||
| Fullauto |
As Oldog says it, is exactly what happened to my '99 X1. Topped the oil level to a higher point than usual as I was going on a long trip and by the time I had returned after about 3000km (2000 miles or so) my crank seal was toast. Also an earlier single lipped one. I got a new double lipped seal from Al at American Sport Bike and no more problems since fitting it nearly 18 months ago. I'd had a constant problem with an oil leak from the tacho drive on my 850 Norton that wouldn't go away no matter how many new seals were fitted. In a nutshell, the reason was crankcase pressure. The motor is basically a big air pump as it first blows air from the crankcase out of the breather and then sucks it in on the upstroke. After some research, I fitted a one way valve in my breather hose between the crankcase and the oil tank. Oil leak stopped and there was a noticeable increase in power. This was so good I bought another one and fitted it to the Buell down near my catch bottle. Engine response felt better and the watery spooge doesn't collect in my bottle anymore. I was talking to Matt Rambow of Colorado Norton Works and he mentioned that these one way valves work better when closer to the breather exit from the crankcase or head. I changed the configuration and I am very happy with the result. The creamy spooge that collects in the primary I suspect is from the moist air being drawn into the primary as the engine cools. Not fact, just surmising. However, I don't know where else it could come from. I suspect another valve on the primary breather will end the problem. I'll just go out and take some photos and post them shortly. | ||
| Fullauto |
This is the critter. Italian made. I got it from a local auto parts store as a "one way fuel valve". None of them could tell me what it was actually for though.    No, I don't sell them. Maybe this is why Brit engines leaked oil so much. They are nearly all 360 degree vertical twins, where the pistons rise and fall together. Maybe the earlier Japanese twins didn't leak because they were mainly 180 degree vertical twins and when one piston is going down, the other one is coming up. Therefore the volume of air in the crankcase doesn't change. The Buell/Harley motors would be like the Brit twins because there is only a very short time where the pistons are not pushing air out or sucking it back in. I love it when I learn something. Hope a few of you guys play with this and give your input. The power increase apparently can actually be shown on a dyno. | ||
| Fullauto |
Sorry for the dirty bike. It's winter here. Oh yeah, the valve has either 10mm spigots which are exactly the right size for the breather hose or in 8mm. A very simple job. | ||
| Fullauto |
Yes, that is a tampon string hanging out there. Super absorbent. I get funny looks when I buy them. The valve fitted to the primary wouldn't work quite the same way as it wouldn't be pumping air out with the motor running. However, it would stop the moist air being drawn back in for those who live in wetter climes. I only get a bit of spooge clinging to the inside of my primary cover on the odd occasion. Somebody rode the X1 the other day and commented that it didn't have much engine braking. ?? Relevant? Don't know. Maybe it would also mean less problems with dipsticks blowing out. If the air is evacuated then there's no pressure to blow it out. Dunno. (Message edited by Fullauto on August 13, 2008) | ||
| Kalali |
Thanks for all the input. I guess I was right about the "difference of opinion" as how the oil should be checked! So here is how I will check oil going forward(albeit contrary to the OM): 1) Get the oil/engine all warmed up 2) Put the bike on the sidestand on level ground 3) While engine running, check the level on the dipstick (take it out clean it and put it back in) 4) Oil level should be about an inch from the mark (bottom or top?) I am assuming that as long as the oil level is halfway between the two marks, all is well. Did I get it right? | ||
| Buellistic |
Easy_rideer: PROCESS COMES FROM when "i" first got my 1997 S3T and having the same oil level problems that everyone else has had trying to find the correct level for my oil tank ... Try my method and see if it works for you as it does for me ??? Forgot about the crankshaft seal stress point, but you are thinking and covered it for me ... Put a PVC valve in the timing plug hole to relive the pressure in the bottom end which will let the excess oil out of the bottom end if you put too much oil in which also helps keep the base gaskets form weeping ... If you put too much oil in the oil tank the engine will push it some where ... Fullauto: You already have a one way valve in your heads already, VALVE,umbrella PN 26856-89 ... "BUT" they do not last very long which is why a lot of BUELLers have went to the BLAST/XB PVC valve PN 17607-00Y in the rocker arm covers ... "BUT" your one way valve set-up is a good PRODUCT IMPROVEMENT quick fix ... (Message edited by buellistic on August 13, 2008) | ||
| Buellistic |
Kalai: All "i" care about is the place where the oil is on the dip stick when the dip stick is first removed and where the oil is on the dip stick when "i" wipe it off, re-insert ad remove again to see if the oil on the dip stick is one inch from the first check ... "i" remark my dip stick for the level indications "i" am concerned about and not the marks put on by the factory as this dip stick is a retro fit part from a SPORTSTER oil tank ... | ||
| Sloppy |
I do NOT run the engine while checking the oil (seems like a waste of gas to me), but I do test it within one minute of coming back from a ride. I also use my hip to prop the bike vertically. Never had a problem with this method. YMMV | ||
| Wile_ecoyote |
I agree with Sloppy, after warmed up or a ride hip prop and in between upper and lower lines on the d-stick. Never failed me yet. | ||
| Oldog |
Auto I just caught some thing in the photo of your bike the ECM connector appears to be above the front motor mount right side, do I have this correct? | ||
| Impala |
Oldog, that is the location of the ECM connector on my X1 too. | ||
| Kalali |
"that is the location of the ECM connector on my X1 too" Same here. | ||
| Easy_rider |
That's where the ECM connector is on a '99 S3 as well. Instead of the hip I use a 2x4 under the kickstand. Seems to be pretty close to level to me. Don't think I'll be trying the Buellistic method any time soon. I will make sure I've got my patience with me next time I do an oil change, though! | ||
| Oldog |
ANOTHER (scuse me ) Factoid, the us 2001 x1 the data conn is in the "trunk" under the seat thats all | ||
| Fullauto |
I'm an Aussie, Oldog. There are a few differences. Maybe this is one of them. | ||
| Easy_rider |
I'm looking at my S3 and Kalali's bikes being '99s, Fullauto being a '00, and Oldog with the new bike as an '01. Maybe a design change? Seems to make more sense to have the connector in the back close to the module. I am jealous that Fullauto doesn't have the breadbox hanger on his engine mount... | ||
| Fullauto |
NHRS billet mount. It's also a '99, not a '00. | ||
| Lee87h |
I changed my oil as per the service manual,which calls for 2 qts.Ran bike around till it was hot.Checked level with bike off and standing vertical,as per manual,and it did not even touch the dipstick.do they want you to run more than the spec amount?I added a 1/4 qt and it is at the lower line on the dipstick,so far so good.2 qts does seem like enough given the size of the oil gallery. | ||
| Buellistic |
My 1997 S3/S3T Service Manual says the system capacity is 2 1/2 quarts, oil filter included ... "i" take that is the first time oil is put into the system ... IMHO that is 2 1/2 quarts minus what is left in the sump ... Since there is no drain plug to drain the sump, there is no way to easy to find out ... One thing for sure, if "i" ever have to split the cases on my engine it will have a sump drain plug when it goes back together ... The old iron head sportster's had one and that is how you could check to see if your oil pump was timed correctly ??? (Message edited by buellistic on August 15, 2008) |
