| Author | Message | ||
     Curley |
Oldog- Yeah, I was thinking of running some injector cleaner in the fuel, it could'nt hurt. The bike did sit for 6 years. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Someone here had the little O-rings on the injectors go bad too. A little air leak..... but you already hosed your whole intake manifold so nevermind  | ||
| Jos51700 |
"in 99 some of the early fi buells had their ecms "reflashed"" True. However only a person inside Buell had that capability. I recall a Buell get-together somewhere where Buell reps were reflashing X1's. However, in the context of his issues, this is not the case. "I have already replaced the fuel lines and filter with brand new. Checked pressure and was 53 PSI. Sprayed carb cleaner into the top of the injectors to clear out any junk. Spent 10 minutes yesterday checking for intake leaks with carb cleaner and than water. No change in idle. And for the record, I have been a ASE wrench for almost 20 years now and currently running a dyno cell at Detroit Diesel." Releasing this information earlier could have been valuable... As mentioned, did you actually verify spray pattern and quantity on the injectors? Sensor readout is a little more important now, but you do still need to (assuming you haven't) verify proper CMP timing. | ||
| Curley |
Verified static timing with the ecmspy and was perfect. Put the stock ecm in today, set AFV at 100, set TPS, went for 10 mile ride, rechecked AFV and was 150%. Really blued my damn pipes! Put the race ecm back in. At this point, I'm leaning towards the injectors being gumed-up. | ||
| Id073897 |
It can't be an air leak. A 50% fuel add-on would require a leak half the throttle body size. You would see that whithout any spraying ... It will neither be any sensor failures. As you said before, the engine will not run correctly with the AFV set to 100%. Thus the engine needs the elongated pulsewidth. A defective sensor shows a opposite effect: the engine runs well at the beginning, but will run worse afterwards, when wrong sensor readings get into fuel calculation and AFV runs amok. As you also found out, the engine will not idle with the low AFV, so it's not a WOT problem and not bound to the learning mode, but to low RPM/load too, leading to the assumption that the problem is caused by an overall error, that hits all rpm/load areas equally. What you didn't tell until now is, if the front and rear cylinder are affected in the same way. Setting AFV to 100 and measuring header temperature might give a first clue. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Jos51700 |
"It can't be an air leak. A 50% fuel add-on would require a leak half the throttle body size. You would see that whithout any spraying " Not true. A pinhole leak too small to see in the weld at the O2 sensor bung will do this very thing. Except, the bike won't run right. I have seen ONE intake gasket (rear cylinder) leak drive AFV values to 150%. Ditto if a sensor was wacky. However, injectors flowing half what they should would be the equivalent of a huge air leak. Like, the size of the whole throttle blade. I've thought about this all day yesterday (It's all I do, really) and I can only see fuel starvation as the issue. I though fuel pressure was 60 psi on X1's? Does it stay steady at 53 PSI as throttle is opened/closed? I'm curious to see. Perhaps another badwebber can loan some injectors? I think dnchevyman had a similar issue not long ago. I have x1 injectors, but they're probably as gummy as I think these are. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If they are just gummy, couldn't he just set the value to 150 and ride them clean so that gradually the CPU would compensate down again? | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
I had a similar issue in my X1 a few years ago, the TPS was the culprit, when I reset it all Ok, but after take a bike for a ride in closed Loop, the TPS was jumping all over. Try reset it and you take a look at TPSº/TPS%, later take the Bike for a ride and put it at learning mode, when you back plug the bike to the VDST/ECMspy and see if the TPS is jumping all over. The problem was resolved when I replaced it and running again. Regards. | ||
| Jos51700 |
"I had a similar issue in my X1 a few years ago, the TPS was the culprit, when I reset it all Ok, but after take a bike for a ride in closed Loop, the TPS was jumping all over. Try reset it and you take a look at TPSº/TPS%, later take the Bike for a ride and put it at learning mode, when you back plug the bike to the VDST/ECMspy and see if the TPS is jumping all over. The problem was resolved when I replaced it and running again." I could see that if it had driveability issues, but he says it runs ok once the AFV catches up. I was wondering, have you tried riding it with the fuel cap loose? A pinched vent hose could cause similar issues... | ||
| Curley |
Already checked vent hose. Dumped a whole bottle of chevron injector cleaner in. Put on 40 miles so far. As of right now, the bike is running great, but it was running ok before the cleaner, just seems a little smoother when holding steady at 2500 RPM. Will check AFV tonight. If I can't get it down at this point, Piss on it- Maybe new injectors down the road (Message edited by curley on May 23, 2008) | ||
| Jos51700 |
NateXLH makes a good point and that may be all it needs.....I'm curious to see how this turns out! | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Sounds good on paper, but it would have to be the back injector gummed up to give the high AFV and the front injector would have to be almost the same level of gum to not load up the front plug. What are the chances of that? How does the back plug look? The front one? And what are the chances that they will un-gum at the same time? I don't have a pet theory yet, but this one has holes in it (but is possible)..... | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Ok, I just read it all again and considering I believe I have all but ruled out gummed injectors because it HAS to be something that is effecting both injectors equally. So I am going to say it has to be upstream. Most likely: Fuel pump next: Fuel filter last: pinched vent | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
He said that there was good pressure though. Perhaps we're getting too fixated on the fueling? If it squirts at the wrong time, the intake valve wouldn't be open for it. Would it act lean from that? | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
He said that there was good pressure though he did, missed that. The manual says 49 psi. wrong time would still be 50% too much fuel in the engine. Extra fuel is not happening if it runs good at 150%. So if the fuel system is good that leaves air. And since a vacuum leak big enough to leak 50% more air would be obvious, that points to the TPS no? (Message edited by scott_in_nh on May 22, 2008) | ||
| Curley |
Bike still running great at all throttle positions. Plugs look good. Reset TPS again, now at 6.7%. AFV is at 150%. I keep thinking I have a intake leak, but I have checked, but it certainly will not hurt to check again. (Message edited by curley on May 23, 2008) | ||
| Jos51700 |
"Would it act lean from that?" No. It will run poorly with the poor atomisation, but the fuel is still there. | ||
| Jos51700 |
Curley, where'd you get your fuel filter? I know it's new, but it may time for a new one, anyway. There's something odd here, and usually (Not saying it's the case here), that means someone hasn't checked something that they said they have. I doubt that here. | ||
| Curley |
This is from a Buell training PDF I found. If the AFV is higher than normal, the system is trying to correct for a situation which is causing the mixture to be too lean. Look for intake manifold or injector O-ring air leaks, incorrect ignition timing and TPS zero setting, low fuel pressure or a fuel line restriction as well as a sensor malfunction. Here is the link. Alot of good info. http://www.primenumbers.org/buell/Buell%20DDFI.pdf Fuel filter is a napa #3032. Also used new 5/16" fuel injection hose. (Message edited by curley on May 23, 2008) | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
Curley, just to rule it out, take and post a print screen of your fuel map. I will compare it to the one that came out of my race ecm. | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
150 AFV is too high. Something is making your bike run lean. Something is making your bike run lean. I think "a Big Bad TPS" I had similar issue on my 99 X1, the AFV reading was 130, I replaced the TPS and the problem were resolved | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I'm with you Buellisticx1, but I admire Curley's desire to troubleshoot and not be just a parts replacer! | ||
| Curley |
I was watching the TPS on my laptop and the voltage increase was very linear and smooth from idle to WOT. It would be nice to have a bunch of spare sensors,parts!!! I will post my fuel mapping tonight. | ||
| Buellisticx1 |
mine also the voltage increase was very linear and smooth from idle to WOT, but when reset it, I set it in 5'6 º and 6.2% TPS in idle and later riding , they had set in 6.8 TPSº and 7.8 TPS% in idle, jumping. Only is a suggestion because it happened me too. Good Luck. | ||
| Raceautobody |
Curley Bottom of the Throttle body there is a vacume fitting used for the Cali. models. Make sure yours is capped off. | ||
| Curley |
Cap is on. Bike still running good and AFV is now at 142% | ||
| Jos51700 |
Although I doubt it, part of me says, buy the OE Buell filter, just in case.... Because? That NAPA filter is probably for a carb'd car that doesn't see the pressure/volume of the Buell system. Maybe, Maybe not, but I DO know, make it "right" before you start a diagnosis. (Checking timing, TPS, wrong parts, etc) I know what I would do, just to eliminate the variable. | ||
| Jos51700 |
And you're sure the flow direction of the filter is correct? | ||
| Curley |
OK. I can't win. I just checked the intake seals again, this time I used starting fluid and it killed the motor. I just replaced them a few weeks ago with factory HD seals. Lucky I just bought a Cometic top end kit so I'll go try them right now. What a crap design. Sorry for all the confusion, but thanks for the help. | ||
| Curley |
Put new seals in and it is still leaking! Went up to dealer and ordered new intake manifold and new flanges. Maybe something is warped like me. |
