| Author | Message | ||
     Curley |
Just got my first Buell, a 01 X1 lighting with only 563 miles on it! Mods include Race ecm, forcewinder, V&H. Had some fuel system issues from being stored so long and replaced intake seals, and now seems to run OK. I just hooked it up to ecmspy to reset TPS and set AFV to 100% and now it runs like crap and won't idle. I than set the AFV back to 145% where it was before I messed with it and now runs OK again. What would cause the AFV to be so high and how do I get it lower?? Is there a way to find out if the fuel maps where ever messed with? Is there a place to reload the race ECM with the settings it came with? Thanks for any help, this is all new to me, I usually work on 2 stroke snowmobiles!!! | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
That adaptive fuel value is changed automatically when the bike is running on the highway. I would suggest doing the TPS and then just ride it. Being set at 100 is just a default starting point. | ||
| Curley |
From what I understand, you want the AFV number between 85 and 115%. With high numbers like mine(149%), something is not right! | ||
| Buellistic |
Check out www.ecmspy.com ... | ||
| Curley |
I am using emcspy, that is how I know my AFV number! | ||
| Jos51700 |
The AFV can run at any value that it wants. There is no "recommended number". However, at 145, it is nearly maxed out. Either you live in one of the more oxygen-rich environments on the planet (You're not posting from that chamber that Michael Jackson sleeps in, are you? I'd hope not), or there is something going on with your bike. The fact that it runs well with an AFV that high tells me that there is either a massive intake leak, or you have some super-duper Ram Air system or somesuch on your bike. An exhaust leak can drive the AFV way up like that, but then the bike runs poorly due to the excess fuel because the bike thinks it's running lean when it's not. I would spray the intake seals with carb cleaner while it's running (keep it off your paint, and keep it from going in the intake) and see if speeds up on it's own or dies. Also, check the Throttle-body-to-intake seal and vacuum cap. This should be fairly easy to diagnose and fix. And lastly, not least-ly, when was the last time your timing was set? I don't care if the bike is nearly new, or not. The factory go alot of these wrong. You need to set your AFV to 100, and go for a 10 mile, 60 mph ride, and see what it goes back to. (Message edited by jos51700 on May 19, 2008) | ||
| Jos51700 |
And you do have a carb support bracket on there with the forcewinder, right? One of these, or similar?  You don't want that intake/filter just hanging off the end of the throttle body. | ||
| Curley |
I will check the intake seals again and yes it does have the support backet. Exhaust is tight and does not seem to be leaking. I have not checked the timing yet, but I will soon. When I set the AFV to a 100, the bike would not idle at all so I never rode that way. I am thinking of putting it all back to stock, would there be a big difference in performance???? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If you have an intake leak, it makes sense that the computer would compensate by squirting more gas in I suppose. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
another thought: If the fuel pressure is a bit low, less gas would be squirted out over the same amount of time per pulse. Intake leaks are more common though. | ||
| Jos51700 |
Natexlh brings up a VERY valid point. To add a bit too it: Even if the pump output is perfect, and right on spec, if the external fuel filter is clogged/dirty, the bike will run lean. I have run into this on more than one X1. Any fuel filter issue will not be reflected in a fuel pressure test. Given the previous "fuel issues", I would check this immediately. (Message edited by jos51700 on May 19, 2008) | ||
| Yo_barry |
Part of resetting the TPS involves running the manual idle adjust all the way out so the throttle butterfly is closed all the way. Once you've done that, click the throttle position sensor button on the screen. That sets the TPS at zero. The ECM will remember this. Now, you need to turn up the idle adjust again so the bike will start and idle. You can do this with the ECMSPY software. Adjust the idle to 1050 RPM. When you do this, the TPS position will no longer be at zero but around 5%. As I understand the process, the AFV will be set by the DDFI. As Jos posted, take a 10 minute ride doing a steady 60 mph. This will allow the FI to adjust for your current conditions. I wouldn't go back to stock unless the Race ECM is not working at all. My $0.02! Spend it wisely. Barry | ||
| Jos51700 |
Barry's .02 is well-worth spending, too. Lots of Good Advice today. | ||
| Curley |
OK, more food for thought. I checked the intake seals and no leaks this time. TPS was set correctly but is at 8.2% in order to idle at 1050 rpm. AFV is at 150%. The bike runs OK but it does seem to just lay over at around 6000 rpm. Called biker bobs in Taylor, MI to do some dyno tuning but they are backed up a few weeks. The ECM may have been messed with back when it was brand new, but don't know because the original owner died in 2002 and the bike has been in storage ever since. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Perhaps it needs to be reflashed to standard values? I suppose you could do that pretty easily with the stuff you already have. | ||
| Jos51700 |
ECM could not have been "messed with". "Messing with" capability did not really exist until 2006 or so, and not in widespread proliferation until 2007. It is possible that the TPS was not reset upon Race ECM installation, but you have the capability to reset it. Unless you messed with the ECM settings, I severely doubt that it is messed with. Replace that fuel filter. I have a hunch. | ||
| Jos51700 |
And 8.2% is absurdly high. Re-zero it. | ||
| Curley |
I have re-zeroed the TPS twice now, It's not very difficult. When I said messing with the ECM, I should have said, a local dealer ship my have reflashed the ECM, I'm sure that technology was available at the time. NatexIh1000, where can I get the factory fuel maps for a race ecm??? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Someone here must have them archived. I still have my race ECM but no way of copying it out to you. Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful. If you can't find the original map, Perhaps I can get to someone around here that can rip it out for you. | ||
| Jos51700 |
"I should have said, a local dealer ship my have reflashed the ECM, I'm sure that technology was available at the time. " Nope. HD only. Not for Buells. Buell ECM reflash capability wasn't available to a dealer until '06. They could reset AFV and TPS. That's it. Even at that, I don't know if they can reflash an X1 ECM now. | ||
| Jos51700 |
Blame the ECM all you want. I doubt it is the nature of your trouble. Proper troubleshooting will never be replaced with computer wizardry. | ||
| Oldog |
I will have the stock and race ecm standard maps both soon, I have done the read save on the race ecm, and I have my original ecm (stock) Blame the ECM all you want. I doubt it is the nature of your trouble. Proper troubleshooting will never be replaced with computer wizardry. no truer words have been typed here. possible skew issue what are your head temps running, vs intake there are not many inputs to the buell ecm. and as such all must be correct and working. } | ||
| Curley |
You all make very valid points. I am going double check all sensors and there out put values, and then I think I will try data logging with my ecmspy. It seems really simple, has anyone on here tried this before? | ||
| Jos51700 |
I'm trying to make this clear: THERE IS NO SENSOR VALUE FOR FUEL PRESSURE. If you had sensor wackiness, you'd have CE lights or no-run conditions or intermittant conditions. Not trying to be a jerk here, but if you have no intake leak, and it's obviously running lean and compensating for that, you need to follow proper troubleshooting, and stop witchhunting electrical stuff for now. You can chase alot of electrons, but if the bike runs OK after it adds a ton fuel, that means it's running OK, it just NEEDs extra fuel. Otherwise it would add a ton of fuel and NOT run OK. (Police officer voice) Sir! Put the computer down and step AWAY from the ECMSPY! | ||
| Jos51700 |
And remember, Fuel pressure at the test port is not actual, it's just pump pressure. A wacky fuel filter WILL starve the motor and NOT show up on a guage. | ||
| Jos51700 |
As a two-stroke guy, I'd figure the first thing you'd do on ANY motor is make sure it had enough fuel!  | ||
| Curley |
Jos - I have already replaced the fuel lines and filter with brand new. Checked pressure and was 53 PSI. Sprayed carb cleaner into the top of the injectors to clear out any junk. Spent 10 minutes yesterday checking for intake leaks with carb cleaner and than water. No change in idle. And for the record, I have been a ASE wrench for almost 20 years now and currently running a dyno cell at Detroit Diesel. | ||
| Oldog |
Sensor list: ET engine temp Iat intake air temp CP Crank Position (cam pos) O2 oxygen exhaust TP throttle position BA Bank angle -- Internal sensed conditions Internal Voltage short / open on sensors short / open injectors fuel pump short / open on coil primary (low volts) Excessive rich / lean o2 - et - iat sensors skewed( out of spec | ||
| Oldog |
ECM could not have been "messed with". "Messing with" capability did not really exist until 2006 or so, and not in widespread proliferation until 2007. Not a correct statement, in 99 some of the early fi buells had their ecms "reflashed" ( found here ) after 2000 supposedly you cant [ ECM spy kinda shot that eh ?] the Kent moore unit cant reflash but aparently there was gear that could. | ||
| Oldog |
one last thought could the injectors be gummed up? |
