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Jos51700
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 10:38 am: | 
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Back to this original thread, I was thinking, and I guess a bad TPS could theoretically stop you in your tracks on FI. I've never seen one just all-out die, the two bad ones I've seen just get dead spots but still run well enough.
Never seen one die, and never heard of one dying, but it is, in theory, possible.
Even if the two temp sensors died, the bike would still run, just not well. |
Dave_02_1200
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 10:47 am: |
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In many years of riding I can only remember one time when I had a bike quit running and I had absolutely no clue as to why.
It was my 1984 RZ 350. Every test in the workshop manual checked out ok but the bike ran intermittently and then not at all.
I replaced the ECM and it ran fine after that. I was relieved that it ran right again but, since then, I have had a suspicion of that which I do not understand and can not diagnose in the field.
An on-board Scanalizer would be good but how practical is that?
Anyway, I was to be endurance racing an RZ 350, I would have a spare ECU in the toolbox in the pits.
I think I might just go ahead and get that spare ECU now.
Thanks,
Dave |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 11:17 am: |
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If your tps dies, the bike will still run...poorly. At least my cars do. The computer just doesn't up the fuel or spark curves properly...basically you're adding more air because the throttle plate is opening, but fuel and spark are still at idle settings...or whatever the last TPS read told it to be.
Usually a TPS will develop a flat spot, not go MIA. They're easy to test, too - use a needle-display multimeter set to ohms, hook to the signal and ground pins on the TPS, and rotate it thru its range. You should see a smooth sweep of the needle on the VOM; any hitches or jumps indicate a flat spot. All it really is, is a "volume knob"...although I have yet to determine if you can set them to go to eleven. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 01:41 pm: |
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Bob,
I think that some of the new ECM tuning software will run on a palm type computer.  |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 01:55 pm: |
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Hell, if you wanna go old school... GO BIG!
http://www.jpcycles.com/productgroup.aspx?GID=335C BA19-284B-4C13-85AE-DB47D81587EF
Stator problems would be a thing of the past... |
Dave_02_1200
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 05:38 pm: |
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Blake,
I you find out more about that, I would be very interested. If I can become competent and comfortable with the "new tech" stuff, that would be the best solution but if I can't get to a good comfort level I might eventually take the easy way and retrofit.
I don't need 100% performance as much as reliability and ease of repair. (and the peace of mind that comes with understanding my equipment)
For me, if a points ignition works well enough that the bike makes reasonable power up to 6,000 RPM, I don't care much what happens after that. In the "bad old days" we had to balance point heel wear from too strong springs with point "bounce" at high RPMs from springs that were not strong enough so I would understand why high RPM performance could suffer.
Dan,
I appreciate the thought, but a magneto is just too far in the other direction. Cool though.
Thanks,
Dave |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2008 - 07:06 pm: |
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Dave,
I'm no expert, just an observer of the XBoard and KV threads talking about such things. Dude, switching to points is not a good idea. I think I've heard of more coils going bad than ignition modules. |
Sloppy
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 12:42 am: |
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Let's do a little thing call "benchmarking"
Think of an industry where reliability is a critical factor...
I think airplanes would be good benchmark where reliability is critical, no?
So, are airplanes moving towards electro mechanical (points) ignition systems or digital? The answer is: digital
Are airplanes moving towards carb's or FI's? The answer is: FI.
So, if we compare the advances that Buell has done with an airplane, I'd say we're in good company, no?
One can not repair a blown capacitor any better than repairing an ECM. The difference is that the capacitor requires far more frequent replacement.
The only time I've ever been stranded on the road is for two reasons:
1. An electronic points failure (an ignition wire arced while inside the distributer cap and burnt the ignition coil terminal, rotor and contact points). Sorry, but I don't know anyone that carries a spare cap, rotor, points, condenser and wire....
2. Coolant loss
Neither of which is in my '00 S3 Buell... I wonder if that's why my Buell has NEVER left me stranded (unlike my Kawasaki and Honda...)
I understand why people want to swap out the OEM equipment, but it doesn't mean that it will make the bike more reliable. People typically don't like things they aren't familiar with... |
Silas_clone
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 06:34 am: |
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While on the subject, how often should you check timing [99 M2], or should you wait til you have a reason?
How about a foot clutch and a jockey? |
Dave_02_1200
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 08:18 am: |
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Good points (again, no pun intended)
I think the main problem with breaker points is that they do require periodic maintenance by someone who knows how to do it properly.
Also, if one runs hotter than old stock coils they will have a shorter service life because they are carrying higher current loads, ballast resister or not. Our new coils might present this problem but they do give a nice fat spark.
When I worked at the Triumph dealer our two most frequent causes of equipment failure were:
1. No maintenance 2. Ham-fisted maintenance by unqualified "mechanics"
Knowledgeable owners had few problems and they took care of the ones that they did have with little effort.
The main advantages of hydraulic lifters and electronic ignition seem to be that both of those problems are completely avoided - and that is a very good thing.
The "set it and forget it" freedom from maintenance of electronic ignitions has increased reliability, in large part, because the unqualified don't get in there and screw them up and leaving them alone is something anyone can do with no effort.
That said, I like my belt drive better than the chains on my old bikes and I will embrace DDFI and electronic ignitions the day after I get a Scanalyzer and learn how to use it competently.
However, until then, if my bike won't start or quits on the road, I guess I'll just have to fix it with a cell phone and a credit card. Such is progress.
Thanks everyone for this interesting discussion.
Dave |
Jos51700
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 08:42 am: |
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A Scanalyzer is a worthless outdated POS. The ECM spy is way better. DDFI can be ably diagnosed with strictly a Fluke 73III Digital Volt-o-meter. (Yes, I know that's not what VOM stands for.)
I've never understood the Japanese take on ignition modules. I think that's where alot of the fear comes from. Practically undiagnosable, a different part, not tune, not program, but a whole different design for each friggin module. Virtually NO user interface, except on the latest units, and even then, it's still not standardized. I don't know how they justify paying R+D on each new model.
Like I said, the DDFI is, at absolute worst, diagnosible down to component-elimination with a meter, which is the absolute best the jap systems get. Some of the Buell/HD tests are very specific.
People bring me jap electrical problem, and I groan. It's basically take a guess and order parts. Bring me a Buell/HD electrical issue, and I smile. It's still a challenge, but I can almost always put my finger on a part and say, "replace this" with confidence. |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 08:45 am: |
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Dave forget the scanalyzer and do a search here for "ECMSPY" and/or "ECM SPY".
I have downloaded the software and made my own cable for about $30. last week I had my laptop talking to my bike.
It does everything you need it to do to troubleshoot (reads codes), maintain (you can set the TPS and AFV) and tune your bike (used along with "Megalogviewer" you can make changes to your fuel map).
Soon I will be welding an O2 bung in my front pipe so I can properly tune both cylinders.
I love learning stuff and this has really been fun!
On my primary bike (if I ever have the money to have a secondary bike!) I will never go back to carbs or points! NEVER! ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) |
Dave_02_1200
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 09:31 am: |
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John and Scott,
Many thanks for that.
Is there a good quality pre-made cable that you can recommend?
I am open to learning new things and you may have given me a reasonable place to begin.
Thanks again!
Dave |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 01:06 pm: |
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Dave start reading and you will find that the cable gets ordered from Mouser and the connector from e-bay. Total cost is about $33 with shipping.
You literally solder 3 color coded wires - that's it (I enjoyed making it myself)!
The manual that you will find a link to will have links for the required downloads along with very good directions.
I apologize for not posting all the info, but it has already been posted multiple times so using the search is really the easy thing (at least for me!) to do. |
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