| Author | Message | ||
     Limitedx1 |
ok first off sorry for the repost, but as i was searching for this topic i read about 4 pages and still didnt come to much conclusive evidence. My shifter side front X1 engine mount bolt snapped about 1 1/2 threads in the head. Now do i just drill into the bolt and pound an easy out into it and try to get it out of there? What is the best drill setup for fitting between the forks and the head and still spinning the bit fast enough? Air drill perhaps? two more things, what does everyone think is the main contributing factor in these bolts breaking? do i just put it back together and hope for the best, or stop lifting the front tire off the ground? Also what strength and Size bolt do i use and what is the correct sequence and torque for replacing the assembly? | ||
| Ratbuell |
There is a specific bolt set you can get either from your dealer or from Al at American Sport Bike. IIRC it is not a "normal" size or grade. The set from Al comes with torque instructions, and your service manual also has them. I'd replace both at the same time...but be warned, for "just bolts", they're not cheap. Yes, I'm sure keeping the front tire landlocked would make a huge difference ;) Also doublecheck your powertrain alignment once you get everything reinstalled - having the engine off center can cause a bolt failure, as can improper torque to the bolt. To get it out, if you need more working room, you can remove the bolt that holds the mount to the frame (put a jack under the front of the motor first), and lower the front of the motor some. That may get you a better angle and more room to work. I'd invest in a reverse thread drill bit to remove it, that way you don't have to "pound" anything into an aluminum cylinder head... | ||
| Jos51700 |
I'd avoid the ez-out. I find them to be ez-in, nevr-out's, once they break (and they break alot). I have used, to varying success, an oxyacetylene cutting rig. The oxygen will burn up the bolt and blow the steel out, but the aluminum carries enough heat away that it's not affected. However, here, I'd say NO. The aluminum is structural (and thin-ish), especially on that side. If you're going to drill it, I would use a little oxy-acetylene to heat the bolt, and change the hardness of it, first. I seem to remember them being a grade 12 or something outlandish like that. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I think they use some sort of thread locker in there too. The heat would probably kill that off too. | ||
| Koz5150 |
I have replaced a few on my bike. I drilled the old bolts with Titanium dril bits, added a little heat to the Aluminum, then backed the bolts out with a standard EZ-out. It is worth it to do both. Other things to check: 1. You probably lost the washer that is on there, order a new one. 2. make sure the engin and the bracket have not rubbed an uneven wear spot on the othe bracket. | ||
| Mikej |
"front X1 engine mount bolt" "I have replaced a few on my bike" This does not bode well for confidence. Especially since you are not known to be particularlly hard on your bikes. | ||
| Chasespeed |
This does not bode well for confidence. Especially since you are not known to be particularlly hard on your bikes. I built my engine, and I AM very hard on my bike..... Never busted one of those bolts... Busted a couple exhaust studs though... Chase | ||
| Werewulf |
refresh my memory! if i remember from the days of my X-1, the manual said you could only remove the bolt twice before the head had to be replaced... do i remember correctly? | ||
| Limitedx1 |
Great news, i found a bit that would go thought that bolt and used a masonary bit to break the bolt free first inward, then put the drill in reverse and pushed into as hard as i could and it backed out with very little effort(i was quite surprised it cooperated) so now i need to get a bolt kit and go through a proper assembly order. is it put the two bolts in the head and then hang it from the frame? or hang from frame then insert both head bolts? | ||
| Sleez |
most that have had this happen once, had it happen again, unless they changed to the billet bracket. i am going to modify a stock bracket with a tie bar between the two prongs and probably use unplated bolts. my theory is the plating process might be making the bolts more brittle. i spoke with the bolt manufacturer and they don't offer the plating that Buell has spec'd. again, just a theory, but my research supports it. i am sending the bolt from the other side into the manufacturer to test if it has been compromised. | ||
| Ratbuell |
IIRC you put the bolts in the head first, torque/loctite to spec, then put the mount back to the frame. I want to say 110 lb-ft to the frame, but don't recall the mount-to-head spec and don't want to quote incorrectly. | ||
| Oldog |
110 to the iso is correct I posted an updated procedure in the KV for Iso replacement. | ||
| Rick_a |
I went one step further and went with the billet bracket and the new style heads (stronger in that area, and better flowing heads). | ||
| Bigblock |
Please be sure you do not overtorque, the manual has incorrect specs, probably a main cause of repeated failure in this area. There is the correct spec, probably posted here somewhere, I believe it is 60 or 65 ft-lbs. Use loc-tite, too. I would look it up, however, as my memory may be wrong... (what was I just saying?) | ||
| Djkaplan |
"i am going to modify a stock bracket with a tie bar between the two prongs and probably use unplated bolts. my theory is the plating process might be making the bolts more brittle." The plating on fasteners is there to minimize galvanic corrosion between aluminum and steel (as well as resistance to oxidation). Unless you plan on keeping the bike in the driest, most arid conditions imaginable, the unplated bolts will start corroding the aluminum mount pretty quickly. If any moisture makes it to the threads on the heads, you'll definitely have a problem there. | ||
| Sleez |
i appreciate that Dj, but my motor laying on the ground with a broken but uncorroded bolt is not the answer. i haven't been able to ride my bike for months because of this situation. i think there are better ways to avoid the corrosion than degrading the strength of the bolt in the process. (if that is what has happened) | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I agree with most all thats been said in the posts above and will add a personal touch for consideration. I like to use stainless bolts for their corrosion resistance and their higher tensile strength without the brittleness of a hardened bolt with carbon. Remember we do not need extra torque used with grade 8 bolts and especially the one going into the head (aluminum). Also I always safety wire these to keep from loosening but a quick look at every so ofter can't hurt. Bob | ||
| Limitedx1 |
could you please explain the safety wire trick? i have heard of it but not sure how to do it right | ||
| Koz5150 |
This does not bode well for confidence. Especially since you are not known to be particularlly hard on your bikes. MikeJ The first set broke after I removed the bracket in error while trying to work on the bike. I later found out the bolts cannot be reused. The second set broke after I flipped my bike at 85 mph at Blackhawk Farms raceway during a trackday. The motor actually shifted close to 1/2 inch during the wreck tearing the front isolator and a few other parts. If trackdays are not hard enough riding for you what is? | ||
| Mikej |
Yeah, I guess a trackday sommersault would be a bit hard on a bike. I either didn't hear about that tumble or forgot about it. Glad you're still typing on the site here though. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Ron(Limitedx1), safety wiring is simply using some small diameter wire, preferably stainless steel; drilling small holes through the head of the bolt, twisting the wire into one and then securing it to some thing to keep the bolt from loosening. I just run the twisted wire between the two bolts holding the front motor mount. This is a must for some components, such as axle nuts, brake calipers, etc. in many racing divisions. I also safety wire my crankcase oil plug so I never have to over-tighten it. There is a tool made specifically for doing this but I never bought one. Bob | ||
| Limitedx1 |
any chance you could snap a pic of your front mount bob? | ||
| Oldog |
If I am not mistaken a brief post plating heat treatment to about 400f for an hour will cook the hydrogen out if you are worried about embrittlement. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"i appreciate that Dj, but my motor laying on the ground with a broken but uncorroded bolt is not the answer." Yeah, but neither is a broken, oxidized bolt and corroded aluminum. Have you thought about getting a billet mount or Stenzel stutze (or both)? I can't recall a failure with anyone using an NRHS mount (and new fasteners - I use the NRHS mount and bolt kit from American Sport Bike, but I never had a failure with the stock set-up), and Ralph (from Germany) says that Stenzel stutze equipped Buells have not had failures in all of Germany (Deutschland, sorry). | ||
| Sleez |
300 bucks for a billet mount, i don't think so. that's why i am having one modified to tie the two legs together. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Ron(Limitedx1), here ya go with a picture, below, with how I safety wired my mount. Hope it helps you to understand. I also think most mounts(the bracket itself) usually only break after the bolts become loose. Like I said before, inspect occasionally. Bob  | ||
| Koz5150 |
MikeJ, you must be starting to get old. After the crash I contacted you and bought the S3 clock you had to replace the one that is forever lost in the field around the racetrack. That's ok though, you are still ok in my book! I still love your American flag Buell tank stickers. | ||
| Mikej |
Ah, that's right, that's right, that's right. Your bike is so clean and shiney in the pics you post that it looks like it's never been dropped. The little H-D watch/clock is still on the S2 dash, due for a battery finally. Thanks for the horsetrade. (See, I do remember some things.) | ||
| Ratbuell |
I just use a dot of red touchup paint on my critical fasteners. I have to "remember" to look, either post-ride or during warmup...but it works for making sure nothing has rotated. And, when I retorque something (front axle nut, for example) I just pull off the old paint and put on a new dot. | ||
| Limitedx1 |
I think it just must have come loose, because the bolt looked fresh, and the busted piece in the head came out very easy after one night with penetrating oil on it. so when i get my new set from American Sport Bike (bolts are on back order from buell) it has been almost three weeks and Al expects them soon. so after i put them back in with loctite i will be marking them with paint. Ay recomendations on what loc-tite brand to use? also how to find the HD bulletin for this subject, i think it is b-018 maybe? |
