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Hillbilly
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My 98 S1 runs rough when the eng isnt working or pulling.I runs good when I give it the gas (accelerate).It wont pull the front wheel up like it used to.It runs like it is missing.I have replaced the plugs and wires.Tried taking off the sceaming eagle coil and putting on the origonal coil thinking maybe it was failing.But no change.The bike has 61,000 miles on it.Any ideas or things I should check?
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Wile_ecoyote
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Timing and or valve clearance. My 2 cents.....
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Jos51700
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Valve-clearance is a non-issue on a hydraulic lifter setup that his S1 (presumably, if stock) uses.

Timing can definitely be a fault.

If the bike sits, or has been sitting, for a long period of time, I would clean the idle jet in the carburetor (and if it's stock, you might go up one size). While you're there, drill the plug over the mixture screw, unthread the adjusting the needle out, blast a bit of carburetor cleaner in there as well, and then reset the idle mix and idle speed after all is clean. Idle circuit does alot for idle and transition from idle, and even affects the midrange a fair amount. All this assumes stock equipment.

With 61,000 miles, a compression check is in order. Is it using much oil?
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Wile_ecoyote
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ah yes, I didnt know they had hydraulic lifters on that year. My stupidity, sorry. Good advice on the carb too.
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Hillbilly
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 04:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I did put a complete carb kit in about a year and a half ago.Ilive in florida,so I can ride several times a week.It doesnt sit long.I have never changed the timing since I bought it.I bought it new.Maybe I should retime it because of the eng wear.Maybe advance just a bit?
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Bluzm2
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 04:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Check your intake seals.
You may also want to do a cylinder leakdown test and compression test.
The leakdown will tell you more than the compression test.
You got a ton of miles on that top end, it my just be getting tired.

Brad
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Hillbilly
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I did pull the carb and check the intake seals 3 weeks ago and they looked fine but I will get some any way.I will do the tests and see what happens.It does seem to go through some oil but not alot.
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Jos51700
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 05:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What color were the plugs? Intake seals was a good one, I didn't think of that. Did you pull the carb, or the intake manifold? It's usually the manifold seals that go.
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Road_thing
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

runs rough when the eng isnt working or pulling

So it runs bad when the manifold vacuum is high? I'd definitely look for a vacuum leak--intake seals or VOES line.

rt
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Hillbilly
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 07:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The plugs where black but no cerbon bildup on plugs.Yes I pulled the intake manifold off 3 weeks ago.But mybe the seals to the head are getting hard but they didnt seam hard.When I reinstalled them I put a thin coat of gasket sealer around them just to see if it would make a diference.I put that set in about 2 years ago.The last time I took the heads off to replace gaskets the cylinder didnt show any whear,about 3 years ago..
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Jos51700
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 09:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The cylinders really aren't a good indicator of wear. I look at the 1st and 2nd ring, and gauge the moly(black) coating. I also look at the ring lands and piston. Blowby here will be evident.

Anytime I pull the intake, I put new seals in (They're cheap, so I don't need to be).

I'm guessing the sealer is you're flaw. The cylinders grow in length as they heat up, and this is the issue for the HD intake design engineer. As they grow in length, due to the V-twin "V", the intake ports grow further apart. Thus the intake seals need to slide around to accommodate this "growth", both vertically, horizontally, and all points in between. Application of sealer glues the seals to either the head, the intake, or both, and after a few heat cycles, one pulls the seal away from the other, and leaks result.

If you look at it, there's NO mechanical retention of the intake at the head. It's floppy loose until the intake brackets are tightened to the point that seal friction takes over and holds it. Even after that point, the intake manifold can still move around until the bracket at the mouth of the carb/throttle body is installed. I've seen several hyper-charger type setups installed without the support brackets, and the carb can be removed by hand or fall off, even while riding. A small backfire{usually from the resultant intake leak} can blow the carb off and it'll will swing up on the throttle cables and bang the fuel tank.

Even after everything else has been installed, all brackets tightened, and all is done, the intake manifold seals and intake are still moving, just minute amounts.

This is also why the seal clamps have a cutout to leave a gap around the seal, to maintain clamp load, without locking the seals in place.

New seals, and no sealer or lube or anything on them, should be on the 1st order of business. No more sealer unless it's specifically called for, please.

(Message edited by jos51700 on January 28, 2008)
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Jos51700
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 09:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Severe intake leak will also throw off the VOES, and affect your timing, so intake leaks first, then check timing and VOES operation.
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Hillbilly
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 08:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That is very good advice and makes good sense,I will get new seals asap. I will do a leakdown and compression test tomorrow night if I have time. I will post what happens...Thanks.
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Trakmastr
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 01:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

SOUNDS LIKE A PROBLEM I HAD NOT TOO LONG AGO.
RAN ROUGH AT IDLE AND LIKE ON ONE CYLINDER UNLESS GASSED HARD OR APPLIED THE CHOKE.
BACKFIRE THROUGH THE CARB, COUGH AND SPUTTERED. . . USUALLY MEANS AN AIR OR VACUUM LEAK ON THE INTAKE SIDE.. . BACKFIRING WHEN LETTING OFF THE GAS . . . AIR LEAK IN THE EXHAUST SIDE . . .
HOPE THIS HELPS?
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Hillbilly
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I will se if I can get seals this weekend and I will let you all know.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sounds like a vacuum leak to me too.
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Naustin
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 10:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Listen to BluzM2 and check the intake seals.

Except, just go ahead and replace the intake seals.

I "checked" the intake seals 3 times before I found any indication that they were leaking. The first 2 times I tried to check them, I didn't find the problem. But, in the end, they were the root cause... Use water to check them, not starting fluid, or WD40 or anything like that. Just plain water from the garden hose; a good heavy mist/shower on the intake seals while the bike is ideling is the best way to reveal a leak.

But, again, don't bother checking, just go ahead and replace them (they're cheap) ;)

Good luck

PS) Now that I read all the responses, I see others have said the same thing and you've already ordered seals... oops. ;)

(Message edited by naustin on January 31, 2008)
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Hillbilly
Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 06:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I replaced the intake seals and carb seal..Much better...Thanks
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Hillbilly
Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It seems that the more miles I put on the bike again the rougher it seems to run,then 2 nights ago the belt snaped when I hit the gas.It was a used belt I bought off from e-bay 2000 miles ago.Wont do that again..
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Ratbuell
Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2008 - 08:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Put in fresh plugs, run it long enough to warm it up, take it for a quick spin around the block (not long enough for it to run badly again), and read the plugs. Sounds to me like you have a jetting issue. Maybe it was jetted way up with the intake leaking as a bandaid, and now you're fouling plugs as you ride.

Both my bikes are thunderstorm engines with carbon fiber aircleaners and aftermarket mufflers/stock headers. I run a 45/190 in each bike, 2.5 turns out on the idle screws. May not be right for your bike, but at least a good place to start.
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Hillbilly
Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

thanks..
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