| Author | Message | ||
     Naustin |
So my bags were cracked. I had a old man who purported himself to be a fiberglass boat repair expert, repair them. He did a terrible job. They cracked again. I have a long weekend in 2 weeks and homecoming is in 6 weeks. I'm pissed. How much are new inners? Where can I buy fiberglassing materials? Can I glass over the horse-crap job Old Man Dipshit already did?? | ||
| Bad_karma |
Naustin Bought the full set last year around $1500. But you can buy the pieces separately. Caution different hinge came on my back and lids. Joe | ||
| Naustin |
For that kind of money, I'll buy aftermarket hardcases and adapt them to fit. Hell, I could have them painted to match the bike and still have money left over. | ||
| 5liter |
Too bad you got screwed over on the repair. I had the local boat guy do mine and they are better than new 2 years out. I don't know if you've seen this: http://home.comcast.net/~buellstuff/lightonsbagrep air.html | ||
| Naustin |
I printed that out and gave it to the guy when I had him do it! I don't know what kind of resin he used, but it didn't bond to the plastic at all. I can just chip it off in many places. He just puddled a ton of resin in there on top of very little fiberglass mat. The bags are already so heavy, that if I glass over it again, they'll be like a couple of boulders hanging off the bike. I'm seriously thinking about dropping $500-$600 for some mid-range aluminum panniers. But, of course, none on the market are built to go on a Thunderbolt, so I'll have to come up with a mount to adapt to the stock frames. Problem is, I've got less than 2 weeks until a trip I was planning, and a month after that is homecoming... | ||
| Stevem123 |
Save your money. If it's that bad then just chip out the bad job and re-do it yourself. I had good results using fiberglass mat and cloth saturated with ABS pipe glue. It's readily available in all hardware stores. The bag inners are made of ABS plastic so the glue bonds well to them. I used the grey stuff and a stiff paint brush. Clean and prep with the ABS primer first. Next cut and lay out the mat and cloth. Do one layer at a time. Pour the glue liberally and use the stiff paint brush in a dobbing fashion to saturate the mat. Also get some nitrile gloves and get your hands in there to work the glue in good. When you get three layers of mat then use the cloth for a smooth outer layer. It stinks and is messy but it does work. Mine have worked great for the last three years. Polyester resin does not bond to ABS plastic and that's what most people don't realize when they try to fix these bags. BC Steve | ||
| Naustin |
 Thanks for the advise, Steve... | ||
| Bad_karma |
Naustin Make sure that you get the adjustment on the retainers right. Too lose or too tight really stress these lite weight bags. The new style retainers have a spring to provide the correct forces. Joe (Message edited by bad_karma on May 28, 2007) | ||
| Naustin |
I used some two-part epoxy to seal the crack on the outside of the bag, and I made new retainer latches out of some scrap oak to replace the broken plastic ones. (I was going to make them out of aluminum, but the metal shop was closed for memorial day weekend, and I got to putsing around in the shop, and the oak actually worked great. If they do the job, then I'll forgo the aluminum - I'll post a pic of them later tonight). I'm not going to attempt to remove the fiberglass in order to re-do it with the ABS glue. It isn't worth the time it would take. If the crack continues to get worse and the epoxy don't stop it from running, I'll either spend the money to put aftermarket bags on it, or just get rid of the whole bike completely. Without the use of the bags, its useless to me. I need a bike that can pull its own weight, not just look nice and sound tough. The sad part is, I'm willing to spend $1,000 for some really nice aluminum panniers, but nobody makes a mounting kit fit the S3, and the last thing I want is some half-ass rigged up mess to mount them on the bike. That would just be another thorn in my side. Why the hell didn't Buell FIX the design of the saddlebags and offer replacements? I should be able to BUY an upgraded inners from Buell. They'll sell you new ones for what -$400 a pop? - but they're they same defective, weak, flawed design. That's bullshit! Why can't they have 10 sets made in a reinforced design and have them available for guys like me to buy? I'm not asking for them for free! I will PAY FOR THEM - but the part I need just doesn't exist and its driving me insane. (Message edited by naustin on May 29, 2007) | ||
| Sloppy |
Fair warning on the latches as well. There is a tab that breaks off at the latches and once this happens you have to drill holes in the saddle bag in order to open them. If this hasn't happenend to you yet, I'd recommend inspecting or replacing them annually. Mine broke after ~ 5 years of year round, weekdays use. I'd suggest buying aftermarket. Buell should have outsourced this rather than have it done in-house... | ||
| Bad_karma |
Sloppy, Mine broke last year after six years. Wish I would have known about them when I replace the bags last spring. Joe | ||
| Naustin |
Here's a picture of my new retainer levers.  I didn't think oak would work because the pin hole is located so close to the edge and the compression pressure is pretty high, but I installed the new levers and actaully tried to break them and they passed the test. I've heard about the latch/locking mechanism in the past too. I've decided after some browsing and research last night that WHEN the bags crack again, or the latches fail, or I just get sick of having the possibility hanging over my head, I'm going to pick up a pair of Pelican cases and just bolt them to the OEM frame. The cases have a lifetime guaranty and are $100 ea. http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/3594/614/ http://pelican.com/cases_detail.php?Case=1550 | ||
| Bad_karma |
Naustin The Pelicans look pretty nice. The two things that I dislike are weight and not deep enough to carry a second helmet. But they are an option I will have to consider in the future. Joe | ||
| Stormbringer |
One of my bags cracked a few years ago so I beat some 1.5mm aluminium sheet to the required shape and attached that as reinforcing inside the pannier. Stuck it on with "araldite" (epoxy resin) and some rivets. Been fine since. Re the latch problem, wasn't there an upgrade for that some years ago? | ||
| Naustin |
Bad_Karma - yeah the problem with the pelicans is the size, they don't really have anything that is ideal. If you get the right LxW, you're looking at only 5-7 inches of depth. I've been browsing their competitors and there are 4 or 5 other mil-spec case manufactures by what I can tell. Unfortunatly none of the others has a website as good as Pelican and they all seem to be geared for bulk sales. Stormbringer - that sounds like it would definatly work. However, I've done all the repairing I care to do. The next thing will be to replace them somehow. | ||
| Naustin |
HOLY CRAP! I just bought some used aluminum military-spec shipping containers out of a seller in Macon GA for $20/ea. including shipping. They are 15x14x11 - that is almost the exact dimension of the stock (deep cover) bags! There are 2 left... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =180125098702&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80 %2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm3 7%26satitle%3D180125098702%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D 1 A little cleaning up, and a coat of black paint or rhino-liner or something and these will be perfect! | ||
| Bad_karma |
Naustin How much do the cases weight? Joe | ||
| Naustin |
Don't know yet... You'd have to ask the seller. I'll bet they weigh less than my stockers that are full of fiberglass resin though. | ||
| Naustin |
OK, here's my plan. As you all know, the stock bags had recessed cavities so that they would basically hang on the frame components, and those frame components are angled in several different plains. I'm thinking about using some blocks, machined to the proper sizes and angles to interface the flat side of the aluminum cases to the tubular stock mounting frame. If I can get the angles right, I should end up with 4, flat level attachment points. I'll make the prototype spacers out of wood, allowing for fast easy modifications, and once I've got it right, I could have a machine shop duplicate the spacers out of aluminum if necessary (or just paint the wood black and epoxy coat it or something). The problem is getting the spacers the exact right size while also getting the bags positioned exactly symmetrical, but I expect that this will require only time and patience. Once the spacers have been made, I was planning to use U-bolts and wing nuts to actually fasten the bag to the stock frame. The stock frame is around 5/8 tubular steel. The "u" of the u bolt would go around the tubular frame, and the wing nuts would be inside the cases. I could reinforce the actual mounting points with flat aluminum on the inside of the cases and have a local shop do the welding - depending on how thick the walls of the cases turn out to be, some big washers may be all that is necessary. Anybody with experience see any flaws in my plan??  | ||
| Naustin |
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| Naustin |
Just got shipment notification and the package is listed at 26lbs. Including packaging at ~ 2-4 lbs, maybe, that puts the actual bags at 10-12 lbs each I guess. Thats pretty comparable to the Pelican Cases I think. I'll weigh my stockers when I get home. I had a good suggestion with respect to my mounting design - that is to make the spacers out of hard rubber of some kind... That's a good plan me thinks. (Message edited by naustin on June 01, 2007) | ||
| Naustin |
Ok - I weighed my stock bag. They are significantly heavier than they were stock now that they have the fiberglass reinforcing and they came in at 12.5 lbs each. SO, that's what the aluminum cases weigh (roughly). I think cases are going to be slightly larger than stock. They are close to the same size, but the square shape yields more volume, and they won't be tucked in quite as close to the tail. I finished making the spacers. I ended up using hockey pucks - 1 for each spacer. $ 0.99 ea at the local sporting goods store. Here's a pic. The top two were easy. 3rd one required a compound miter and I thought I was going to lose a finger trying to cut the hockey puck on my chop saw with no face to put flush on the fence...   EDIT - PS - scheduled delivery of the cases is 6-6-07... I'll post more pics then. (Message edited by naustin on June 02, 2007) | ||
| Bad_karma |
Naustin, Spacers look good. I'm interested to see how these turn out. Joe | ||
| Stevem123 |
Pretty crafty there Naustin! I love when someone has the smarts to find something cheap to make a part out of. Brilliant! Looks like you're going to have a great setup when you're done. Great find on the boxes too! BC Steve | ||
| Naustin |
Thanks guys! The next issue I'm wrestling with will have to wait until I actually get the cases. I'm concerned about the aluminum cracking due to vibration. I don't know how likely this is to happen, and I'm not sure what steps are taken by aluminum pannier builders to address it. I've thought about drilling the holes in the cases a little larger than the bolts, and using some kind of industrial anti-vibration grommets to keep the steel bolts from actually touching the aluminum cases, but I'm not sure if that is overkill or not. At any rate, I checked all the autoparts stores and hardware stores around, and I couldn't find the kind of grommets I'm looking for. I know they exist, because I've seen them before, but I guess industrial parts like that aren't stocked at Napa or Ace hardware. Might try the John Deere Implement dealer though. The parts guy out there might have just the ticket. Then again, If anybody knows whether the Happy Trails or Jesse or similar bags bolt right into the aluminum, or whether there is some kind of rubber isolation system, that would help me to know whether I'm worrying about nothing or not.. | ||
| Stevem123 |
My guess would be to make up some backplates to spread out the loads. I think those cases are pretty thin material so relying on just the aluminum material and standard size flat washers probably won't do much good. I would personnaly shy away from rubber mounting gromets just because I don't much care for wiggly side cases. BC Steve | ||
| Naustin |
I got the Cases, one is perfect, one has a decent dent in the cover, but it's not that bad, and I might be able to beat it mostly out. Interestingly, they are made by two different manufactures, but are identical, except that they have different pressure relief valves. I drilled the holes and mounted them on the bike using the Puck Spacers. Worked fine, except that the cases have those ribs on them for strength, which increased the amount of clearance I need. So, I made some aluminum shims to go between the case and the rubber spacers. I got them all cranked down tight and the cases looked great, were level, and felt very secure. So I fired up the bike and went for a test ride. I think the Hockey Puck rubber is too soft. The cases move around quite a bit in relation to the body of the bike. I dropped my hand back and put my thumb on the gap and could feel it moving 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch even over slight bumps. Keep in mind that the cases were not tied into the 4th mounting point on the license plate bracket yet. But I don't think that will solve the problem. Next week, I'm going to go to solid mounts. The plan is to make them exactly the same way and dimension as the hockey puck ones, but I'm going to make them out of hardwood. Home Depot has a block of popular that should be just right. I’m leaving for a long weekend tonight, and didn't have time to take any pictures before I dismounted the cases, reinstalled the stock bags, and packed the bike. If anyone needs to know how to carry a fishing pole on an S3, I have just the solution! I'll update this thread next week. Nick (Message edited by naustin on June 07, 2007) | ||
| Bad_karma |
Nick You might not want to solid mount the bags because of the vibration. Maybe some aluminum braces on the side of the pucks to stiffen the up. Joe | ||
| Naustin |
Well it has been a couple of weeks and progress on the new cases has ground to a halt. I took that long trip with my wife on pillion and had no problems with the stock bags. I used epoxy to seal up the crack and so far that has held up fine. The long weekend was about 700 miles round trip, and the following weekend I did another 320 miles solo on a nice long Saturday morning ride. This coming weekend, I will be busy putting all new windows in my house - 18 of them - so I'm not planning on making any progress on the cases, and the following weekend is homecoming. So the cases will have to wait. They are about 1/2 inch too small to hold my full-face helmet - which is a real disappointment and part of the reason my enthusiasm has wained for them. I'll get back to them after homecoming, or if the stockers start to fall off again - whichever comes first. Nick |
