| Author | Message | ||
     Oldog |
I have had a couple of issues that have been either on going or have just surfaced. You thoughts or experiences would be appreciated. Issue 1. Recently I broke the original drive belt it had just over 20 k miles on it. I purchased the new Goodyear, A "Quick" look at the original sprockets said ok for a while. I installed the belt and had some real strange stuff happen. I run the belt "Scarry loose" and when I hammered the bike exiting a corner it started "chattering" violently, another time leaving a stop light same deal it was like the bike was on a paint shaker I could actualy see the fly screen vibrate with the shake!. I reduced the slack in the belt to 2 1/16" at 10# center of the bottom run checked as described in the FSM. just a little looser. hammered the bike again same thing there is a kind of soft "BRRRRRRRR" that you feel/hear when this happens. less noticeable, after the adjust. no bangs or grinds from the gear box. axle align measures +/-.007" with my dial calipers. I Er We have been told to "run 'em loose" perhaps like a chain when you change the belt you change the pullies. Issue 2 This one has me scratching my head? This started before major service this past year, it seems to get worse when the machine is warm. When I Pull away from a standing stop sometimes I get a lurch like yanking in and then dropping the clutch, no banging or other noises the mill spins up a little and wham the bike lurches. particulars: I run the new factory fluid, at 1 qt, checked on stands and in spec according to the FSM This last repair cycle, I removed the spring plate but did not change the original spring (its stiffer) Plates in the clutch looked almost like new no blue plates and nothing burnt. I rechecked the adjustment (esepecialy after seeing Nicks' damaged throw out bearing) and made sure that there was play with the lever released. when moving the shifts are smooth and easy and other than balls to the wall type of accel it works good any ideas? | ||
| Rick_a |
Did you use a new belt for a tube frame bike or the new style for XB's? I believe the new XB belts are designed for use with sprockets with a slightly different pitch. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Jim...
I had that on my Cyclone twice, two different reasons. The first time was the classic time, and I am trying to remember what it was. Lots of discussion about it in the knowledge vault... I believe it was worn second gear dogs. Aaron Wilson posted helpful information about it back in the old days. I was doing other tranny work, and just replaced the 2nd gear pair. Not cheap and not easy, but also not that hard and not that expensive either. The second time it was because I was running a crappy dunlop rear. Felt almost the same, but did it in more then just 2nd gear. I'll post more if I can remember more... | ||
| Wile_ecoyote |
Hows the clutch? Maybe chatter from it. Just a suggestion. | ||
| Rick_a |
There's a spring plate in the center of the clutch pack that takes a crap (rattles) over time. | ||
| Oldog |
Reep: Did you get a "bang" outa the gear box as the gears slipped and then re-mated. I'm running a michlin pilot road but It did the lurch with the conti road attack on before. I had planed to pull the gear box next year thinking that its more of a cursory inspection, than repair I am shocked to think that the gear box would need attention at 22k miles that being said the 1-2 shift does require more than usual attention or it wants to catch a neutral every now and again. Matt I adjusted the clutch to factory spec and then re checked and re adjusted it not just the cable but the ball / ramp mech to make sure that the ball bearings were not under load constantly I think that its ok. the spring plate has been removed and 3 plates added to the stack to make up for it. ala the newer bikes. I will re-check the KV on this. I wish I could graft my Old CZ tranny in to this bike, You could boot it up or down a gear no clutch under full power it never missed a shift, of course it probably came out of a Chezch Delivery truck as It was huge and QUITE HEAVY, I bet the thing is in a scrap yard some where the rest of the bike is gone and the tranny is sitting in a pile with a car crushed under it  Rick. The belt is the new '06/07 XB belt 128 teeth, tooth shape and aprox pitch is about the same If its gear box problems I am sure glad that I am NOT dealing with an XB having that "OLD STYLE" Trap Door may be an asset. (Message edited by oldog on April 15, 2007) | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Oldog I have been running or ran the NEW 06 XB BELT for 2 months so far NOT A SINGLE ISSUE OR NOISE. DONT RUN IT CRAZY LOOSE. Just run it loose! Get on the bike and you should be able to push the belt down to the swingarm but it should be STIFF. I just got my wheel on from a tire change so I can put up any pics. Check around for rubs. The new belt is the way to go and there is no pitch problem or anything else I could get worried about. After reading your whole post. Id be guessing something else is up with your bike. You said : This one has me scratching my head? This started before major service this past year, it seems to get worse when the machine is warm. When I Pull away from a standing stop sometimes I get a lurch like yanking in and then dropping the clutch, no banging or other noises the mill spins up a little and wham the bike lurches. Well, last year I did a complete clutch adjust, very carefully. On hot days I am going to say I had this happen to me but oh so rare!!!!! I have been out of the saddle for tire and bearing work etc. Next week ill be back on the road. Now all I did was adjust the clutch by the book. My clutch got just a little easier to engage but now im guessing I need to make another tweak to the adjustment....or start to assume that something in my clutch is wearing. It was so rare that it would happen and it may have even stopped happening for me. It was never anything hard like you discribe. More on the softer side. My first thought was WTF clutch is slipping??????? However it doesbt act like a slipping clutch. Something is up and it happened right after I adjusted the clutch.  | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
The second time it was because I was running a crappy dunlop rear. Felt almost the same, but did it in more then just 2nd gear. Yup i had a very worn crappy dunlop rear tire. Maybe that was why? | ||
| Oldog |
Grad: a. slacked the cable b. I pulled the derby cover c. removed the lock plate turned the adjuster screw "in" till tight( snug) d. backed "out" 1/4 turn, felt a little tension on the screw / bearing, e. repeated b/c/d getting just shy of 1/2 turn and feeling play in the screw/ bearing f. squeezed the lever and placed the lock plate on the actuator and adjusted the clutch with the derby off have 1/8" play per FSM in the cable the ends looked good it did it once today it was not warm, I'm trying to pay attention to what and where my hands and feet are / are doing normal movement and operation are good it the Randomness of the LURCH that has me so puzzled.. Oh and I did a little 2 up around the house nothing unusual go figure.. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Have you lubed the clutch cable and checked it (free of the bike) for any binding? Could be a lower section snag - even though you're releasing the lever, the cable could be binding up until 'whack', it pops free from whatever was holding it. Been there, searched forever to find the problem, done that. I keep a bottle of Dri-Slide in my slingbag now, and one in the saddlebag of the FLHP (since I keep getting caught in the rain). | ||
| Oldog |
Rat I straightened out the cable and used Al's cable tool squirting copius amounts of lube in to the cable and on the surrounding area  Am I looking for a kink in the sheath or would you recomend just pulling the cable assembley and dousing it again, I'm game I have no desire to dis assemble the primary and pull the box, at this time to check for issues.. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Jim, yes, a fairly dramatic bang. Scared the crap out of me... Engage clutch while rolling on throttle gently, feel bite of clutch and start accelerating, and finish engaging the clutch and rolling on the throttle the rest of the way... and ***BANG***. It felt like I blipped the clutch with the throttle wide open. | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
Sure sounds like something serious  Becarefull out there Oldog. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
I too have had the "hard accelleration jump" on my S2 and M2. Turns out in both cases the belt was a bit too loose. I have found that the new belts need to be a bit tighter than the old ones. Still loose but not quite as much as the old one. The symptoms were much the same as yours, hard accelleration away from a light. I'd get about 2/3 to redline, right in the meat of the powerband. The bike would lurch and continue accelerating. Scares the crap out of you when you are in a curve or turn. It would only happen in first gear, never any other. Your second problem is very odd. Kind of hard to diagnose via the internet. Maybe take care of the first problem and see what happens to the second? Good luck! Brad | ||
| Sportyeric |
I had a time when the Sportster would give a lurch that I compared to what happens when you go over a wet manhole cover with the throttle on. Quick slip and then good again. Or maybe a mouse taking a ride around the inside of the drive belt. I couldn't ever keep track of what gear I was in at the time but I knew I didn't want it to happen when I was at full lean. The dealer diagnosis was worn dogs on second gear. Replaced the pair and its been fine ever since. Riding buddy Funjimmy says best way to set belt tension is to undo the shock bolt (With the bike suspended.) Move the swingarm to tightest position. Set belt tension to be just snug there. Thats what I'm going to be doing. | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
So far one ride around everything was just fine. First ride belt was too lose, had noise flap flap just like oldog said I think, Took it back at tightened to about 2 inch deflection. Perfecto so far. | ||
| Oldog |
Still shudders and lurches With the worn dogs, Eric did you not get an audible "BANG"? I had a breather bolt/ banjo work loose and bail this week so other issues. Ride safe | ||
| Reepicheep |
If it is the 2nd gear dogs, it's not nearly as expensive or difficult as you would think to replace it. That's not to say it's not expensive and difficult, just not as bad as you would think. Tuber owners celebrate their trap-door trannys... The other time I saw it was with a crappy Dunlop rear tire (D220). The "wet manhole cover" feeling described above. It felt remarkably similar. I believe both Aaron and I posted pictures of the worn dogs in the knowledge vault. | ||
| Cyclonemick |
Is it required to buy new sprockets when upgrading to the new xb belt? I'm contemplating on buying replacements because I have over 40k on the original. I will probably run it untill it breaks but it would be nice to have them waiting in the garage for when the worst does happen. | ||
| Stevem123 |
Funny this thread shows up now but here is my experience. I got a new style belt from Al at american sportbike. First of all to answer the question of belt tooth pitch. NO you do not need different sprockets the belt tooth pitch is NOW the same. If I remember correctly, the original new-style belt was a different pitch but was later changed to the original pitch so this is not an issue anymore. I put one on my S3T and yesterday I had the same issue when I hit the throttle hard in the sweet-spot of the power band the belt jumped a few cogs! I just hope I didn't damage or weaken the belt since it's almost brand new. I checked it and it was pretty loose feeling. I tightened it up to specs and will see this afternoon if it still happens. The feeling when it jumped is just as "Old Dog's" post said he felt so I don't believe he has any other problems but the loose belt. BC Steve | ||
| Oldog |
Update: Fat feet, I have caught 2 clutchless shifts ( no bang, some lurch ) slight upward pressure on the shift lever at times and wham! The weather is supposed to be bad the week end, so I will further tighten the belt to spec it has helped to set the slack at ~2" Vs "scarry loose" quite a bit, the lurch at take off may be a poorly adjusted shift lever, the chatter still thinking belt but I am wondering about the tire. | ||
| Bad_karma |
oldog I had something of this sort with my S1 and it turned out be a combination of failed swing arm isolators and front engine mount. How yours? Joe | ||
| Oldog |
Rear Iso 2 years 10k miles Front Iso 6 mos 2k miles just replaced the belt isos look ok. | ||
| Oldog |
further info, Took the beast to the Drag Strip this week end and beat on it. The chatter is 1st gear only while launching, I was told that stiff suspension settings can cause the wheel to hop burnouts no issue initiating I am going to further tighten the drive belt after a close inspection this evening. Oh yeah, issues with shifting, Nothing new there. (Message edited by OlDog on April 30, 2007) |
