| Author | Message | ||
     Bluelightning |
Den That is exactly what Jose Q was seeing on his. When he replaced it with a Baker drum, a few months later it did it again to his Baker drum! Pull your clutch pack apart to check the status of the clutch spring, better yet get rid if it. Not the one on the outside with the fingers, but the one located in the middle that is held together by brass rivets. The fix is to get 2 steels and a friction, otherwise known as an "extra plate kit" if you buy a whole new clutch set. The stock disks are pretty durable, so all you really need is a new friction and the 2 steels. You may get away with the re-used fork, but it depends on how bad it was. Worst case is you will be pulling it apart again to replace the fork. Cagers on cells deserve a good throttle rev!!! | ||
| Djkaplan |
I have the same gouges on my 5th and 3rd gear shift fork, but I never had a clunky 3rd gear. I decided to replace all the shift forks ($34 apiece - 10%, thanks Daves) since I was in there anyway. I should have my bike buttoned up this weekend. I can't wait to see how the Baker kit works out. I've always hated the 1st to 2nd gear change on my bike; it always been very clunky (LOUD). | ||
| Denfromphilly |
If my local HD dealer has a shift fork I may buy one just to be anal. I hope my new drum doesn't start to trash the forks. I will write to Bert Baker! He will figure it out! I did replace the spring plate with two steels and one friction. That's where I started this project. A couple friction plates were really chewed up. I am going to open up the clutch pack again before primary reassembly just to make sure there are no more crushed rivet parts in the basket. I didn't find enough pieces to account for even half the missing rivets. Hope to be on the road tomorrow! Thanks for your help...Den | ||
| José_quiñones |
Yes, but the shift drum problem was the symptom, not the cure, the cure is what you did earlier by removing the spring plate. You should not have any more problems from now on. Enjoy your new clutch! | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I got it all together and there was more broken rivets in the clutch basket. The bike does not up sift as good, 3 to 4th is terrible. Down shifts are crisp and I can find neutral very easy. Any opinions? Shift pawl adjustment? The clutch is great! | ||
| Djkaplan |
Do a search with the words "Baker shift 4th" with the "and" option. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
DJ, [Battle2Win, issue #15 Spring 2002, Baker Shift Kit product test by Aaron Wilson(pg. 18)] "As much as some of us love our Buells loud, obnoxious, rude, and a tad unrefined, I don't think I've met anyone yet who would pass on a little smoother gearbox. We've recieved help in this department from the folks at Banke Engineering, who make some terrific shifters, and East Troy followed suit with a big improvement in the stock shifter. But there's also a company out there with an offering that addresses the issue internally: Baker Drivetrain, of East Lansing, Michigan. Baker offers a wide variety of gearbox pieces for Big Twins and XL/Buells, including 6-speed boxes for both. If you haven't got the quid for the full blown 6-speed, though. consider their 5-speed XL Shift Kit. For your two hundred fifty odd bucks, you'll get a new shift drum, detent plate, and a detent spring. Baker claims the kit 'eases the ability to find neutral, eliminates false neutrals, and makes upshifts and downshift's more precise.' Installation is within the reach of most home mechanics. Set aside three hours or so, more if you've never done it before. The factory shop manual does an excellent job of describing the job, [but take a look at the pictures here for a few things to consider that aren't in the book.] So how does it work? The first thing you notice is that shifting effort is noticeably reduced. Just kind of breathe on the shifter and you're on the way to the next gear. Second thing you'll notice is that finding neutral, at least from first, is easy as pie. Finding neutral from second is more difficult though, which has got to be the result of the asymmetrical ramps on the neutral notch. Shifting action itself? When running reasonably hard through the gears, the reduced effort makes it feel very slick. Bang-bang-bang, it works like a gearbox should, with no false neutrals in sight. Lazy shifts, however, are still a bit clunky, which I chalk up to the back-cut dogs finishing the shift action initiated by the forks. When you do things slowly, you can still feel that double action taking place. What this thing really needs to complete the package is a matching shifter. The shift effort is so much less that the shifter could easily get away with less throw since it needs less leverage on the box box than it did before. The ultimate Buell shift kit would package this set up with a special short throw shifter.[Mr. Banke, are you listening?]" You can tell us how it compares to your impression when you get your's on... Sorry no pictures included, I suppose I could try scanning them for you, but they are more descriptive than instructional anyway. I hope I have cited the source sufficiently. -Bug **Moderators, you have my apologies if this has been posted in the KV previously, and I hope a direct quote from a mag is not inappropriate. (Message edited by littlebuggles on May 28, 2006) | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Ahhh, so I am not alone in the 4th gear department. I took the whole thing apart again last night and readjusted the pawl, everything looked perfect. I wish I had drowned the shift forks in oil after reading the posts.....I will ride and ask favors of the break-in gods...Wish me luck..Den | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Oh yes, forgot to mention that I took the bike apart again mostly because I feared I did not tighten the bolt that secures the shift drum and detent follower. I was right, it was not tight, only snug. The bike was better after tightening, 4th was still hard but worked perfect when I shifted hard. Initially it took the bike 20 miles to warm up and it shifted very nice. Now it's 100 miles later and the bike shifts hard into fourth for about 3 miles and then starts working good. All in all the shifting is light, crisp and precise, a big improvement. Downshifting is as good as anything I have ridden and most up shifts the same. The clutch is perfect, hooks up great and has an excellent feel. I dumped it too fast passing a truck yesterday and did a burnout. Thanks for all your help! | ||
| Djkaplan |
Okay... I finally got my Baker shift kit installed. It was kind of fun messing around in the trans for the first time. After the shift pawl adjustment, I ran the trans through the gears and sure enough, I had an interference with the end of the pawl arm and the Baker detent plate when engaging 4th gear. It forced the trans to hang up between gears into a false neutral. I can't remember who posted the fax sheet from Baker that shows where the intereference is and where to grind to fix it, but whoever you were, thanks man! A few minutes with a hand file was all it took to grind away enough material to eliminate the interference. It's snicks into ever gear now, with no dragging or hang-ups. I still need to finish modifying and polishing my exhaust before I can test ride it, so no ride report just yet. | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Oh Dude, where is that faxed sheet? I never saw it and my bike is really nice except 3rd to 4th is still a little clunky. Den | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I can't remember who posted the fax sheet from Baker that shows where the intereference is and where to grind to fix it, but whoever you are, thanks man!" I found it... it was Orion1 who posted the fax sheet from Baker. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/47623/160713.html#POST516987 Thank you. I would have never been able to figure that one out on my own (eventually... maybe). Baker should include a copy of this with every kit. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"I never saw it..." Oooh, sorry, I thought it would be caught in a search with the key words 'baker shift 4th' with the 'and' option. I pretty much scoured everything in the archives with 'baker' in it before I installed the kit. | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I called Baker and they faxed me the instructions for the pawl mod. I then emailed them asking why they don't freely divulge this when the kit is purchased. I gotta tear down my primary and clutch again to fix the problem they know about but could not communicate? That sucks!!! | ||
| Pressureangle |
Stock XL/Buell 5 speed transmissions can be made much better and almost for nothing with one simple mod we used to use on the 883 racers. Find a dowel pin which fits closer to the shift drum slot (larger diameter, I don't remember the dimension anymore) ream the fork holes to match closely, and polish the edges of the drum slot. Just FYI Eric | ||
| Sarodude |
I keep seeing the title of this thread and every day think of something different... Maybe he wants a bigger rock. Buy him a wedding dress. His bender is cutting off circulation. He's waiting till after the surgery. His electrolysis technician advised him against it. Sorry. Continue... -Saro | ||
| Denfromphilly |
How insensitive, this affects the sacred bond between man and bike you fool! Your gonna get a yugoslovian bike in the afterlife..... | ||
| Denfromphilly |
like this....  | ||
| Oldog |
Wuuuudnnnnn Wuuuuuuuudnnnnnn  we worry about isolators / & rust he worrys about pine beatles and termites I should see about building a wood treating plant there, New models come in 3 colors CCA Green Borate Blue Creosote Brown.  | ||
| Pressureangle |
Hardwood tail, too. | ||
| F1johny |
funny thing, my 98 S3 is falsing neutrals from 5 to 4 and wont shift down..... | ||
| Jackbequick |
The clip that holds the detent plate on the drum maybe? Those have been know to fall off occasionally. You can tell by pulling the primary cover and using a dental mirror and flashlight to sneak a peak back behind the clutch. Jack | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I took my primary apart again on Saturday to modify (grind down) the shift arm. I must say that the bike shifts so easy it's kind of "too easy". I slip my foot under the shifter and it does clutchless shifts before I can pull the clutch lever in. I often cannot feel when it clicks into gear and don't know if it shifted. If I had the motivation I would open the primary for the fourth time and put the stock detent spring back in. Otherwise the Baker Smooth Shift kit does what it's advertised to do, result in smooth shifting. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I just got my engine buttoned up last night, too late for a test ride. Today is the day if I find out how my Baker shift kit is going to work. I can hardly believe it'll make my transmission as smooth as you describe. My gearbox sounds like it's breaking rocks on the 1st to 2nd shift. I was really surprised when I inspected the gears and engagement dogs; I thought for sure they'd be chewed up, but everything looked fine. Tonights the night! | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I was always surprised how good my transmission parts looked. Considering the nashing and grinding I expected it to be bad but it looks almost new, even the dogs. Yes my transmission is almost too soft. I can sure shift it faster. Good Improvement! | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Yo Dan, How did your shakedown cruise go? | ||
| Djkaplan |
After I got through freaking out because my lifters weren't pumped (sounded like I left a monkey wrench inside the engine)... pretty good. The horrible clunk I always got on the 1st to 2nd shift has been reduced about 80%. There is a "snick" sound now and it doesn't feel like the engagement dogs are smashing together anymore. It still feels like the shift lever is moving the wheels of American industry in there, but the gear change is precise and smooth. The most significant change it made is all the shift throws feel equal now. Once the new shift forks bed in (I did prelube them) I hope it gets even better. The effort was definitely worth the results and it was really fun working on the gearbox for the first time. It's the first time I ever worked on a bike transmission without having to split the cases. (Message edited by djkaplan on June 13, 2006) | ||
| Henrik |
Point of reference; based on this thread I emailed Baker wrt. the modifications to the shift arm. This was a week ago, and I still haven't heard back. I guess I'm surprised that they wouldn't post such information in their tech section and provide specifics wrt. exactly where and exactly how much material should be removed. Oh well. Thanks all for bringing it up. I'll be digging into the S2 for exactly the same problem. Henrik | ||
| Djkaplan |
If you need to see the fax, follow the link posted above to the original thread where Orion1 scanned and post it. It is odd that if it wasn't posted here on the BadWeb (thanks Orion1!), I woulnd't have known about it at all. You'd think Baker would want it to be widely known. | ||
| Denfromphilly |
I emailed Baker twice, once to sales and once to Bert Baker himself a week ago about this issue. I wrote that I was disappointed that I needed to tear my primary down for the third time for a problem that they know about. I heard nothing back..... Without this knowledge we are doomed to failure. With it we will be very happy. When my bike shifted hard I checked with my local HD dealer and a couple local bike shops about installation of the Baker kit. The HD dealer said they don't recommend it as it's not original equipment but they can put it in for about 6 hours labor. They said it was as simple as follow the factory service manual. The local bike shops the same, they had no info on modifying the shift arm but one said he had problems with the kit and poor shifting. I called Baker a few weeks before purchase and the guy that gave tech advice said the same thing, nothing special, follow the manual. He said there were no other mods and it was straightforward. After I had problems I called back and the tech guy said there are no special instructions, no issues, they go in very easy. When I specifically said that the tribal counsel had spoken of long lost secret plans to modify the shift arm he said "I don't know of any". He did check with someone and came back with special instructions that he faxed. Now get this, the special instructions are to be followed for a Baker 5 speed, 6 speed and the shift kit! All the Baker tranny's need this mod and the technical guy doesn't even know this! Crazy! In Japan several people would commit Harri Kari for this shameful lack of knowledge. In China they would line up the 30 factory managers and execute them in front of everyone to motivate the factory. In America we don't even acknowledge responsibility, offer an apology or fix the problem. There must be some balanced middle ground! BTW Dan, my first to second shift is the smoothest and easiest of all, it's the one I can't tell if it shifted and clutchless shifts too easy. Fifth does the clutchless thing easy too. 2nd to 3rd is a little clunk but was always my worst shift. Downshifts are just chink, chink, chink...perfect. |
