| Author | Message | ||
     Silas_clone |
Put the 2000 rotor and new pads on my '99 M2 Went for a ride around the "block", maybe 3 miles total. Kept squeezing the front brake to see if it would lock up like the book warns. When I got home, I touch the rotor to see how hot it was. It was a lot hotter than I expected. When installing the pads, I squeezed the pistons using the old pads to keep even pressure and used hand pressure. They went in easily. I did not split the caliper, nor did I bleed the system. The book says no hard braking for 100 miles on new pads and rotor. I was braking pretty hard. I am gonna bleed the system. Is the heat up normal? I did about 10 hard stops. | ||
| Whodom |
Did you thoroughly clean the dust off the pistons before you pushed them back in? See here: http://www.americanthunderbike.org/techtips/brakepads.php If you didn't, the pads will drag and may virtually lock up from time to time. It's not too late to go back and clean them if you didn't the first time. | ||
| Oldog |
Silas: its likely that if you did not dust off the pistons you are in for more work.. when the pads drag you get the heat that you are describing, please see this thread in the KV http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=534665#POST534665.. If you didn't, the pads will drag and may virtually lock up from time to time. No they will lock up! one poster has been down I have had it happen 2 times before the redo (got lucky and no get off), the job aint hard just takes time Hugh steered you right though that is most likely it.. (Message edited by oldog on June 08, 2006) (Message edited by oldog on June 08, 2006) | ||
| Silas_clone |
I just hit them with spray brake cleaner. Caliper is coming back off... | ||
| Silas_clone |
Took the caliper off and used a plywood insert about 3/8 thinner than the old rotor and old pads. I pumped the brake lever to get the pistons to extend and cleaned them with brakecleen and a scraper and even dental floss! To be honest, they looked ok, just a little dirty. I compressed them, put the whole thing together and did the same loop trying not to hit the brake too hard. [2 miles] The rotor was not as hot and I remembered to check the rear rotor, finding it hot too, but definitely not as hot. I could touch the rotor this time. My feeing is that the pads may wear in a bit, but also that the pistons are not retracting, at least not to my liking. The '00 rotor is not a floater like the '99, is this a factor? Doesn't rattle though! | ||
| Blake |
It is still a floater, just not the same as the older configurations. Brake disks can get red hot when really put to the task. That your brake disk might become very hot is not anything to be concerned about. It is normal. All the momentum energy of you and your motorcycle at speed gets converted into heat in order to effect decelleration. A brake that doesn't generate a lot of heat isn't going to stop very well.  | ||
| Silas_clone |
I guess if the pistons were hung up, I would not be able to pull that plywood out, it slide out with no effort. Still gonna change the fluid. [I hear you Lafayette] | ||
| Whodom |
I pumped the brake lever to get the pistons to extend and cleaned them with brakecleen and a scraper and even dental floss! To be honest, they looked ok, just a little dirty. It doesn't take much dirt at all to make them stick. The surface of the piston has to slide past a tight-fitting o-ring when you press it back into the caliper. Most cars have a rubber dust boot around the piston to prevent dust getting on the surface, but there's not really room on these small pistons. Like that ATC page says, the pistons should be completely shiny and look new when you finish cleaning them. Otherwise, you will be repeating this process in a week or two. | ||
| Silas_clone |
Looked shiny after I cleaned them. Just took off the master cylinder cover, over-filled!!! [I have the bike level, hung from the handlebars from a 4x4 "trapeze" I rigged] Bled some fluid out, then checked for that pressure release hole operation, no spurt that I could see. Gotta change the fluid and check level/pressure release. I probably gotta rebuild the darn caliper, but I hope not. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Not trying to step on any toes,but I think you are starting to chase"ghosts". If you were having a problem that would be one thing,but what I read everything is working good(plywood test for one)I don't see where you are having a problem,keep working on them and you might....Charlie | ||
| Djkaplan |
I agree. 10 hard stops on any rotor will make it hot. Ride around without applying the front brake at all. If it's hot then, then you may have a dragging caliper. | ||
| Silas_clone |
I am probably being too concerned, that is typical for me. I still have the bike hanging from the handlebars now and the brake is putting on a little drag [IMO] But I am gonna drain and refill, then go for a ride. If that pressure relief hole is the culprit, I would guess that opening the bleed nipple should release the pistons? I am not too bad with wrenches, it's experience that I lack, still the prospect of going over the bars is what I'm worrying about. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
If you spin the front wheel, how long does it take it to stop? Very light drag is normal. If you are going to change the fluid, I would empty the master cyl.using a clean rag (old tee shirt) fill it and let the new fluid push the old fluid out.Unless you have a high dollar bleeder,then just follow the directions.IMO | ||
| Oldog |
Charlie: BF is cheap, me I would pump it out a little at a time and fill the resivour as I went, Its a pita to get air out of this setup, silas, I agree with charlie about one thing fiddle long enough and you may have more problems, IF the bike is 4 years old I would consider overhauling the brakes per fsm . other wise change pads, clean pistons, change fluid, for now... | ||
| Silas_clone |
Ok, now I do have a problem. I removed the pin that holds the pads in and was able to pull the pads out with my hands. I think the drag is still a little heavy, but the wheel will spin a full revolution plus on inertia. So I drain the system and refill. I try to pump up some pressure, nada! I take the brake line off, remove and clean the line and master cylinder with brakecleen, replace and refill, nada, no pressure. WTH???!!! CY, if I had seen your post sooner, I would have done it that way. I filled the reservoir with fluid and no line attached, NADA! so the master cylinder went from working fine to...????? I am missing some great riding weather screwing around with this thing, every rebuild part has to be ordered. They quoted me a $50 labor charge to mount the rotor at the shop, shudda went with it!!! Geez, there, now I feel better... But whattheheckiswrongwitthisthing??? (Message edited by silas_clone on June 09, 2006) | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Well you finally found the problem you didn't want.You got a bucket full of air in the system now. If you got a pressure bleeder it's not to bad, otherwise your gonna break a sweat before you get it back to working. If you haven't messed with the caliper, don't! hook the line back up to the master cyl.,fill up master cyl. Put your thumb over the other end of line and try to pump some pressure into line. Pump it fast and alot. After you get some pressure there,hook line back up to the caliper and try to bleed out somemore air. Once you start to get pressure it gets easier(but the whole thing is a major PITA) that we tried to warn you against. Good luck and maybe get some help....Charlie | ||
| Silas_clone |
Just bought a MITYVAC or something like that for $30. Putting a transmission together is easier than this. Electronics and now hydraulics, I just don't get it! | ||
| Silas_clone |
OK, i just used the MITYVAC. Not bad, seems to be ok. | ||
| Silas_clone |
Just went for a ride. I dunno, the brakes work nicely. I guess I'll putt to the dealer and let them give it the eyeball overhaul. The rotor warms up even when I barely use the brake, but so does the rear and I haven't changed anything there. Nice bike. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Glad you got everything back together and working. Those power brake bleeders are nice, but you missed a real experience doing it the hard way.........Charlie | ||
| Chasespeed |
Those power brake bleeders are nice, but you missed a real experience doing it the hard way.........Charlie YESSIR... I blew a the front brake line when I first got down to TX.. Dont have a pressure bleeder anymore.. Well, it took me damn near a couple hours..but, I finally got it...I forgot what a PITA that is... Ok, rotors WILL get warm, when riding, even if you dont touch the brakes... They do have a slight bit of drag..period. The heat and pressure on the pads, pushes them back as far as needed(in a rpoperly working system), but no farther, thus heat adn drag... But, there is another part to this? What happens when you heat metal too fast? By the pads draggin ever so slightly...the rotor is already warmed up..and there isnt such a shcok...(no, I cant say for fact that this is desing intent or not, just a simple metalurgy fact)..... Now, if you go for a ride around town, no major hits on the brakes, and the rotor is hot..thats ok... now HOT...then you have a problem... Its hard for me to describe, what shoudl feel normal, or not... But, if it blisters your flesh after a ride around town...ok, you got a problem. Only other thing, get a marine grade grease, HEAVY STICKY STUFF.. and apply it sparingly to the slides on the caliper, and the pads.. Other than that, you have addressed basically everything but a caliper rebuild, which, while not a BAD idea, doesnt seem needed... Chase} | ||
| Silas_clone |
Chase, I sorta figured out that the pads were touching the rotor enough to keep em hot. I felt the caliper, then the carrier, neither were warm. The rear was hot, the front took a few seconds to become uncomfortable. I like the "shock" metallurgy thing, it sounds logical. Every car rotor I've replaced dragged a little when I spun it, I was just worried about doing a flip over the bars. Rebuild may happen later. | ||
| Silas_clone |
Charlie, I was cussing like a sailor and knew that my only chance was the vacuum bleeder. That mityvac thing is worth the $30 | ||
| Henrik |
For future brake bleeding consideration: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/174272.html?1139415194 Henrik | ||
| Silas_clone |
I fly model airplanes and use large syringes to fuel pressure bladders [basically surgical tubing] I was gonna try this, at least something like this, but went mityvac instead. | ||
| Cyclonecharlie |
Silas, These are the things you don't forget. Mityvac 30 bucks, experience priceless. | ||
| 89rs1200 |
Every one has missed a VERY important item. NEVER use the brakes hard for the first 100 miles!!! The pads need to seat first. Use the brakes hard when pads are new and the rotor WILL heat up a lot. Your pads will also over heat and the binders/glues will glaze. They will not work well again until you sand the pads a bit. You did NOT need to bleed your brake lines. | ||
| Djkaplan |
That depends on the brake pad manufacturer. You apparently haven't read the procedure for bedding in Lyndall Gold pads. The brake forces they recommend for bedding them are almost in the stoppie territory. I recall hearing it said that if you are doing it right, you should be able to smell the brakes, too. I did the procedure, and within 10 miles of riding, they were as good as they were going to get (pretty damn good, btw). |
