| Author | Message | ||
     Tripp |
anybody know where the frames for the tubers were sourced from? they look eyetalian kinda. how about the swingarms, forks etc.? | ||
| Court |
>>>>they look eyetalian kinda Er. . . not exactly. Frames and swingarms good 'ol USA, forks from Italy, The Netherlands and Japan, varying with model and year. | ||
| Tripp |
ahhh, so the tubers are more american than the xb's, hehe.  | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
they look eyetalian kinda. YO, WHACH YA MEANS THEYS IS LOOKING ITALIAN..THEYS WAS MADE RIGHT CHEER IN THES USA!! AND DON'T YOUS FREAKING FORGET IT. JT  | ||
| Rocketman |
Made in the USA? I thought Buell bent the tubes themselves, then welded them together in their own jigs. I'm somewhat disappointed if you're implying the frames were built up somewhere else, even though it still be in the USA. Why you might ask? Well for me, if a company goes to the extremes of bending their own tubes and welding them together to make a chassis then that is truly in house hand built, and that's what I assumed Buell did with the Tubers. Tell me I'm right please? Rocket | ||
| 1313 |
Rocket, Since I like you I really don't want to be the one to pee in your cheerios. But, during the days of the tube framed Buell's frame vendors ranged from a few select vendors in Wisconsin, USA. If it's any consolation the early Blast frames were made for Buell by H-D (and may still be for all I know). 1313 | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
"from a select few vendors in Wisconsin"... perhaps Waterford Custom Cycles (the old Schwinn Paramount shop), Trek, etc.? | ||
| Rocketman |
A few select vendors? Can we narrow this down and sign it as conclusive proof? I'd have thought it would be less expensive for Buell to put together a tube frame than farm the job out considering they were making a few thousand of them, but maybe not. Hey these Cheerios taste funny :-( Rocket | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
Well for me, if a company goes to the extremes of bending their own tubes and welding them together to make a chassis then that is truly in house hand built I THINK YOUR RIGHT.. JT | ||
| Rocketman |
If you have machines shaping and bending pieces of metal, and a jig to lay these pieces of metal on where they can be welded together to form a complete unit I'd just assume it would cost less if you owned the machines, bought the metal in and paid the staff to do the labouring involved. I haven't a clue what the jigs look like that one makes bicycle frames upon but it would surprise me if they were able to be used to make a Buell tube frame. That leads me to believe that anyone, bicycle manufacturer or otherwise, would have to invest in jigs that would hold the Buell frames to be made, which is what Buell themselves would need to do if they made their own frames. See where this is going? This further makes me believe that the only thing a bicycle manufacturer can bring to the equation is compatibility of some machine shop stuff. The time and knowledge that goes with the working of steel tubing, and the ability to know where to best source the metals required. If indeed Buell had the tube frames built for them by outside contractors I'm sure there's an interesting story in there somewhere, and I for one would enjoy to hear and know that story, no matter how long or short. Were tube frames built by hand or machine? If not built in house, were tube frames built down the road from Buells own factory where one could imagine a joining of hands between local communities pulling together in a long lived relationship, or were the tubes put together in some distant state where economies rule over communities? Perhaps I'm being far too romantic considering these are only pieces of cold steel we are talking about. Cold steel put together to make motorcycles that in some 'evil' variants could indeed be believed manufactured in Hell themselves. Ah the truth is out there.......................................................somewhere Rocket | ||
| Outrider |
Some of you folks amaze me. Anyone that has been in the Buell factory should realize that it is an assembly shop with an R&D annex. I wondered about this when I first bought my X1 and I would run into folks at various breakfast stops in Southern Wisconsin. It seemed that everywhere I went a few folks would stand and tell stories about how they or their employers made or used to make a bunch of stuff on my bike. Heck, even the black coating on the engine. Speaking of the engine, Buell doesn't make it. Harley does. So I guess you could say Buell is a fine example of outsourcing. The only difference is they used to outsource in the local area. Now, it is world wide where it doesn't help much with the local economy in Wisconsin. Of interest, from time to time they do let local companies quote on their imported stuff, but I have the feeling they do that more to make sure they aren't getting shafted from the offshore vendors than to put money back into our economy. Just an opinion. YMMV | ||
| Rocketman |
Jeez Out, what exactly do Buell make in house? Nothing? I always thought they made their own frames and bodywork. The two essential ingredients that for me made the tube frame models hand built. Exhaust systems, seats, wiring looms, all the carbon fiber stuff, I assumed this the sort of stuff Buell made in house. Now I dare not ask how much of a Harley is actually made by Harley. The truth may well be too shocking. Rocket | ||
| 1313 |
Jeez Out, what exactly do Buell make in house? This will take a little while to answer. Based on model year. 1995 - Bodywork (out of RTM fiberglass), carbon fiber (also RTM, but of course Carbon Fiber), painting operations, component and vehicle assembly. 1996 - Bodywork both S2 and S1 (as above), carbon fiber (as above), painting operations, component and vehicle assembly. 1997 - Some S1 bodywork may not have been converted to injection molded plastic yet, so maybe some RTM fiberglass bodywork, painting operations, component and vehicle assembly. 1998 - Painting operations, component and vehicle assembly. 1999 - See 1998. 2000 to current - Component and vehicle assembly. I'd assume that there still is some P&A painting operations for supplying old tubers with bodywork, but for the current products it is pretty much component and vehicle assembly. If this strikes you as odd, the pre-S2 Buell's used a formula very similar to the 1995 model year (except no c.f.). What does H-D make that is on their bikes? Tanks, fenders, frames, painting operations, component and vehicle assembly about sum it up. I hate to sound like Daves, but a trip to Wisconsin this coming June would help you realize just what Buell does. Regarding the vendors Buell has used for frames over the years: Pre-S2 Jim Schneider (sp?) S2 ArcRon (frames) Jim Schneider (oil tank and fairing bracket) S1 (until early-mid 97) ArcRon after ArcRon came Nelson (who also made exhausts for Buell) 1313 | ||
| Prior |
Brankin covered the Buells, I'll cover the Harleys, and I'm sure a few others will chime in too. At the York, PA final assembly plant: -in house sheet metal stamping and fab, tank/fender welding -frame fab and weld -kickstand forging -paint and chroming -wheel lacing I'm sure there are others, that's just the stuff I can remember from my last visit there. Obviously shocks, electronics and all are supplier based. For being a 'final vehicle assembly plant', they do a heck of a lot there. The KC plant is similar with assembly. I haven't gotten a chance to visit the powertrain plant yet... Alex | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
How about the engines? | ||
| Prior |
http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/Factory_Tours/wauwatosa.jsp?loc ale=en_US Sporty and Buell engines are built there. | ||
| Rex |
do the factory tours. the motors are pretty much built in house. they do have the castings done outside and shipped in. pistons, cylinders, etc. But then HD takes them, machines them to their needs. Pretty cool plant. Raw bar steel comes in, they cut it, and form into shafts, etc. They truly are a motor company. Makes you wonder when they will start doing the same to the motors....parting them out for assembly only. I am sure they keep doing the motors themselves to have better control over the final product. Love seeing the motor plant in operations. buell as said above, is basically an assembly building. they do a good job of this. Very organized. It was cool seeing the buell plant change every year, during the tours. Half of the plant at one time housed the painting booths, etc. where they sanded, painted bodywork, etc. REX | ||
| Sarodude |
All controversies regarding tube vs xb aside... Isn't it nice to know that, with something is critical as a frame, Buell designs it to the best of their brains, then farms it out to people most capable of producing these items in quantity and at a reasonable price? I mean, I'd rather my favorite engineers focus on design than manufacturing. -Saro | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I don't really care as long as it puts a bike under my buttocks. | ||
| Rocketman |
I'm told Triumph, since their new plant was built after the fire, build more in house than any other motorcycle manufacturer. 95% of Triumph's are built by Triumph. Seems this is a British cottage industry tradition of long standing. TVR, Morgan, McLaren and a handful of others still make large percentages of their own vehicles. TVR make their own bodies, chassis, interiors, switch gear and controls, power steering racks, wiring looms, instruments and best of all, they even build their own engines from the ground up. That's the kind of dedication I'd like to see in a special type of motorcycle, and TVR's young Russian owner , Nikolai Smolenski, is adamant he's going to produce TVR bikes in the future. Rocket | ||
| Jon |
Rocketman, I make Buell tubeframes. There, I admit it. | ||
| Blake |
Is someone implying that Buell paid to have other folks bend up their frames? | ||
| Rocketman |
1313 said, Regarding the vendors Buell has used for frames over the years: Pre-S2 Jim Schneider (sp?) S2 ArcRon (frames) Jim Schneider (oil tank and fairing bracket) S1 (until early-mid 97) ArcRon after ArcRon came Nelson (who also made exhausts for Buell I never heard of any of them. Rocket |
