| Author | Message | ||
     Oldog |
For any of you new guys there is information about oil pump gears in the KV while the bike is parked this winter, I recommend that you give them a look the crank mounted gear is subject to having the teeth wear thin and then break off, dropping bits into the pump inlet and other unpleasant things, the reason that I am posting this is that I pulled mine, tonight it did not look bad at all looking at it from underneath the bike, with it out it is worn much more than expected, the replacement bronze item is a factory upgrade part, job is not too hard to do. | ||
| Whodom |
Oldog, how many miles on your X-1 now? Glad you caught the problem before anything happened. The gear on my 2000 S3 is showing signs of wear on 2 or 3 teeth, but I could tell no difference between my initial check and one 2500 miles later. I plan to check it again in 2500 more miles at the next oil change. If there's no further wear, I'll go to 5000 miles before I check it again. If more wear is noticeable, I'll go ahead and put the bronze gear in. | ||
| Oldog |
Hugh: How are you determining the wear? I could barely see my drive gear with the light and mirror, my bike has under 15K one of the teeth has enough wear to concern me if it was allowed to go to 25K I would be crying about having to raise the money for the work. Its your bike, for my money I would plan on doing it real soon the pix of your gear are worse than mine! get the Jims gear holder thing from AL at American Sport Bike or Daves, the biggest PITA is keeping every thing in order, I pulled the lifters and did an extensive visual inspection If you are not worried about other issues the gear, some gaskets and your time for a day this is too easy the wear on my gear is typical that it is some what asymetrical and tooth wear appears to be in "planes" Pix later. | ||
| Whodom |
Jim, I'm basing my estimate of wear off of what I see in the digital photos I took. Compared to what Al Lighton and some of the others have posted, I don't think mine looks that bad. My SWAG (based on the photos) is that I have one tooth that has lost maybe 20% thickness and two others that have lost 10%. Al posted photos of a gear that had worn down to absolute knife edges (~90% of tooth gone) without breaking. I have no intention of letting it go anywhere near that far but at least it gives me some indication that my gear is not going to frag with the wear I have at present. I felt a lot better when I saw absolutely no additional wear at my second check after 2500 miles. I definitely plan to change the gear, just seems like I haven't been able to set a whole day aside for something like this in months. When I can find part of a day free, dammit, I want to RIDE.  My bike has about the same mileage as yours (~15K). Interesting theory on the cause of the wear I saw posted somewhere (SACborg maybe?): One guy suggested that the cranks on bikes exhibiting this problem are slightly out (crank flywheels and "stubs" not parallel). This would explain why the gear would wear on one side only and why some bikes have the problem and others don't. It would be interesting to know if this is really the cause. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Someone also mentioned that the gears both have an even number of teeth or something so that the same teeth would meet every time. Bread + Butter Bread + Butter Bread + Butter Bread + Butter  | ||
| Oldog |
I ran it to night for a few minutes fresh oil and filter. good oil pressure, I will post pix tomorrow My gear was not worn past 50 % what got me was the patterns of wear on the teeth | ||
| Silas_clone |
that bronze replacement set up seems to be the deal. i thought it was the pump gear, not the pinion pump drive gear! well it looks like i will be able to cut my gear cover down after all...and change the tappets too. is the flywheel run out the real problem? | ||
| Oldog |
is the flywheel run out the real problem? Silas: I can't say, I did not place a dial indicator on the shaft. Al @asb indicated that there may be a correlation to that, I do not know. What I find odd, the wear is almost entriely on one side ( Thrust Face? )it is not uniform from tooth to tooth. My SWAG: 1. The part is made of what appears to be steel and is heat treated, it is softer than the driven gear, and is being worn away even in an oil bath, possible hardning problem. 2. The gears do not meet on center the driven gear is below the center of the drive gear this geomentry may cause problems, as the gears meet. the angles may be such that the driven gear being slightly harder acts as a cutting tool, the edges of the DRIVE gear are SHARP, if the driven gear is as well that would help to explain it ( in my small mind any way ) [ SEE WHITE BUELLS POST IN THE KV ] Also faint lines may be seen on the back side of the drive gear as if the wear were starting there. 3. I have cut simple spur gears they are relitivly easy to check for sizing, ( gear fabrication of any type is NOT simple )checking these gears for correct part geometry would be a challenge. 4. the oil pump driven gear may be moving around slightly, it runs in bushings and also is under thrust loads( slight) VS the crank which runs in roller bearings relitive movement from centerline should be quite small. What I think is happening the edge of the driven gear meets the drive gear, the angle and position of the contact point is such that the driven gear scrapes steel off of the drive gear, starting from the out side end to the inside end the wear gets deeper as the edge of the driven gear slides down the contactface to the maximum engagement of the gears and the highest loads at this point the largest amount of metal is removed as the gear wears the gouging continues narrowing the tooth profile until failure. NOTE I WILL BE CHEKING THE 50.00 MAJIC BULLIT IN 10K MILES.. I want to see what is happening I would be supprised IF there were .003" of runout in that area while operating. Silas Why are you changing the lifters? | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Yo All, I took my oil pump out this weekend to check the gear during an oil change. My gear was similar to what you people have seen, looked pristine on one side but I rotated the motor and the opposite side is worn about 25%. Very uneven wear pattern. I changed my primary oil too to SE Synthetic, it shifts very smooth just like Mobil 1. I also discovered the V&H muffler hanger in the back was cracked, big surprise there. All went well until 30 miles into my test ride when the derby cover, lock nut and spring decided to dismount. It's times like these that I wish I had the confidence to really tighten the torq screws. Alas, now I can get some allen head screws. Anyone have a spare derby cover they can donate to my cause? I already got the remainder of the parts coming from Appleton HD. | ||
| Whodom |
Jim, What procedure did you follow for replacing your gear- right by the shop manual, or something else? Why I ask is Al Lighton suggested it should only be necessary to pull one valve cover assembly. As I understand it, you turn the crank until one set of valves are fully closed, pull that rocker cover assembly, then turn crank until the other set of valves are fully closed, but leave that rocker assembly in place. Then pull the oil pump and cam cover. This technique saves a significant amount of labor and one set of gaskets. IIRC Reepicheap said he had heard it was possible to do the change without pulling either valve cover by setting the crank in precisely the right position, but nobody has confirmed this. | ||
| Oldog |
I had the lifters out for a look and replaced the tube seals, yes you can use 1/2 kit or buy the pieces, the X1 the boxes were easy to get in and out, if you do one just remove the rear one and open the front one Due to the spring pressures involved I would hesitate to attempt to open the gear case with both rocker boxes inplace. you have to remove the top of the other one to be sure that the valve is unloaded. Hugh, you will save ~25.00 parts and 1 hour the boxes are easy to re install there are a total of 13 bolts in the assembley. of 3 sizes, In round numbers the parts costs here in Wilmington NC Gear ------------- 50.00 Rocker Box gaskets 50.00 (SET) gear case gasket 12.00 ~~ Oil pump Gasket ~2.00 procedure: prep bike, drain oil, clean motor, stands, tank, seat, discon battery.[ see fsm on FI bikes ] remove 4 outer screws both boxes remove tops remove plugs & wires bike in 5th bring either cyl to TDC power stroke ( FROM SMALLEST TO LARGEST )remove 2 socket head screws, then 3 hex head bolts, then 4 lower section bolts(these are oxide finished) with both boxes off, remove trim and timer cover mark timer plate with a SCRIBE and remove screws move plate out of way, remove 5/16 bolt from cup, remove cup Cut any wiring tywraps See FSM for pattern, remove gear case bolts in cris cross pattern working out from timing cup bore. loosen gear case. CRITICAL PAY ATTENTION TO CAM GEARS IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE FSM FOR YOUR BIKE GET THIS INFO THE CAMS FROM DIFFERENT YEARS WILL HAVE DIFFERENT MARKS FOR TIMING !!!! MESS THIS UP AND YOU HAVE SCRAP METAL! Remove gearcase cover. and prop or secure out of the way. you must have the crank shaft gear locking tool see one of the sponsors, American Sport Bike has it LOCK CRANK WITH TOOL Remove Cam #2 I think, I took them all out for inspection. NOTE the marks are small, remember to OIL all shaft ends in re-assembley. Remove the nut and pinion gear remove oil pump gear clean shaft I used break cleaner with RED locktite on threads re assemble shaft with new gear, re install #2 cam check timing marks, I visualy inspected the case and all related parts. I used gasket tack on one side of the gear case gasket and stuck it to the motor assembley is reverse of disassembley, clean fasteners and use blue locktite if called for You may want to replace the timer case seal too If you have the FSM read through the dis / Re assembley sequence this is the cliff notes version YMMV (Message edited by oldog on November 07, 2005) | ||
| Oldog |
Den I will be out all this week, what color is your derby? | ||
| Denfromphilly |
Just plain ol dome chrome. Will take anything really... |
