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Ourdee
Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - 09:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bonus is you can use them as a structural component imagine your bikes frame being the actual battery!

Fuel in frame. That's a neat idea.
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Hootowl
Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

2. "refuel" time. I can fill the tank on even my Cummins, in under 5 minutes. Until hot-swappable batteries become the norm, I don't see recharge times dropping that low.

As many of you know, I have an EV. Charge times don’t really matter. I have plenty of range to carry out my daily tasks. When I get home, if it needs it, I plug it in. I leave for work every day with a full tank. I do not need to worry about how much fuel I have or whether I need to get gas on the way home. It never enters my mind.

If you’re road tripping in an EV, be prepared to have your trip take longer. When I have to go that far, I fly. But they are getting faster. The trick is to not charge all the way. That last 10 percent takes a long time. 10 to 80 percent happens fairly quickly. I drove from Houston to Dallas and back and spent 15 minutes at a charger each way. 30 minutes charging, six hours driving. That’s not bad. I needed to eat anyway. EVs can be practical. You just need to change how you think about driving. It’s different than gas. In some ways, it’s better, and in some ways it’s worse. If you road trip a lot, an EV may not be for you. For a commuter? Massively useful and cheap to drive. The savings in fuel and maintenance over the life of the car make up for the higher up front cost.

I think electric bikes have their place. I hope they do well.
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That "last 10%" is noticeable on smaller rechargeables too.
I have a series +5 voltage regulator hooked to a USB charging port so I can charge stuff at work on a lab supply. This has the side effect of being able to watch the current.
Cell phones and my bluetooth speaker behave in this way.

Here is pretty good article explaining this:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/chargi ng_lithium_ion_batteries
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1313
Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - 03:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

OK, OK...

Yesterday I had a Mountain Dew Livewire. I'll admit it was pretty good with that orange flavor, but I don't really think it will replace my consumption of "regular" Mountain Dew's.

Oh what? That's not the Livewire being discussed here? Sorry about that!
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Midknyte
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2019 - 08:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://electrek.co/2019/11/25/bmw-electric-motorc ycle-patent-electric-sport-bike/

Frameless design with battery box as a stressed member...
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Natexlh1000
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2019 - 11:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmmm.
Dent a fuel tank/frame = ugly mistake

Dent metallic housing protecting cells = Fires?

This is what happens when you rub a Tesla's belly too hard:

e

I guess they thought they would follow the pickups out on the ice but didn't take into account rocks near the shore?
This was Lake Champlain in the early spring.
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Gregtonn
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2019 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I guess they thought they would follow the pickups...

Tesla is planning to sell pickups.
https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/cybertruck

Could be interesting.

G
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Jaimec
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2019 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Depends on how well the battery box protects the battery. When I had my accident last year, the insurance company totaled my 2016 Zero because the adjuster found some scratches on the battery box. He said the cost to test the battery was prohibitive, so they just totaled it. For SCRATCHES, not even a dent.

Overly cautious much??
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Sifo
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2019 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This is what happens when you rub a Tesla's belly too hard:

I just don't get the truck. I'm not sure if it's more Delorean or more Damnation Alley. Either the front seat fits NBA players with head room to spare, or the back seat is for Wizard of Oz extras. The bed rails at the front of the bed are so high that you can't reach into the front of the bed, right where small stuff ends up when traveling. The tail light is at the top of the tail gate. Can it be used with the gate down, or does it shine uselessly on the ground. If it does wrap around to the top of the gate, then it's a target for the first piece of dropped cargo. Uni-body? Was the styling a joint venture with KTM?
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2019 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The flat panels are apparently because the steel is so hard they can’t stamp it. I’ll pass, thank you.
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Hootowl
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2019 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The car and driver article repeats the same incorrect statement several times. The single motor version is not all wheel drive, it is rear wheel drive. And unless they’ve changed their strategy, it has an open differential with the brakes supplying traction control, as is the case with many high performance cars. (Spinning wheel has brake applied, transferring power to the other wheel.)
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Pwnzor
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2019 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Why does it have to be so friggin butt-ugly?

If it was on tracks, I'd accept it... but it's not.



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Midknyte
Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Segway has finally put a dog in the race. Albiet an ebike, but solid looking first volley.

https://electrek.co/2019/11/25/segway-electric-dir t-bike-dirt-ebike-sales-begin/
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Jaimec
Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 - 12:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm hoping Harley has Livewires on display at the NYC IMS next weekend. I was rather surprised they didn't have at least a display bike last year. How do you drum up interest if people can't see the bikes beforehand?
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Rick_a
Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 - 12:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Cybertruck looks...ambitious.
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Ourdee
Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2019 - 03:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I like tracks.
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Midknyte
Posted on Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 08:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)



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Ebutch
Posted on Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

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Ourdee
Posted on Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would so ride that box.
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Midknyte
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 10:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Segway Ninebot Apex

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/390111/watch-se gway-ninebot-apex-action/
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Torquehd
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I dig it. But that motor whine is annoying.
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Midknyte
Posted on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 08:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Zero announces SR/S

https://electrek.co/2020/01/27/zero-sr-s-new-elect ric-motorcycle-model-coming/
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Jaimec
Posted on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 10:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm thinking the SR/S is the faired version of the SR/F that I've been hearing about. We'll know for sure on February 24th.

I just found out the local Harley Davidson dealership (in Bellmore that used to be my local Buell dealership) is carrying the Livewire and encouraging demo rides. I may need to check that out if the weather should cooperate some upcoming weekend.
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86129squids
Posted on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I posted this somewhere else here on the BW, looks like a good place to re-post...

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2020/01/damon-hyper sport-receives-ces-award-for-impressive-technology -and-design/
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Midknyte
Posted on Monday, January 27, 2020 - 06:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

All of the extra rider tech on the Damon sounds cute but at what cost battery-wise?

Definitely can see where it would be appealing to new riders brought into the fold by the appeal of an electric bike.

Claimed mileage of 200/300 miles per charge is pleasing if true.

I think my allegiance is squarely with Zero at this point we're I to go post-ICE. The SR/F is just solid.


(Message edited by midknyte on January 27, 2020)
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86129squids
Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 12:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've become wary of supposed AI/sensory claims nowadays. I don't want my vehicle thinking for me. Or at all. My vehicle is completely analog, except for the EFI. I have installed this on the front windshield.

Cut and paste the following, on smile.amazon

"Slower Traffic Keep Right" (Reversed Reading) Windshield Vinyl Banner Wall Decal 36" x2.5" With Free Bumper Sticker
by Clown Lizard

I can vouch for the decal quality, had it on two vehicles so far. Be sure to measure the windshield, determine the center and allow for bend.

(Message edited by 86129squids on January 28, 2020)
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Adrenaline_junkie
Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 09:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't believe I have voiced my EV opinions on this board before, so maybe it's time.

Electric vehicles have some amazing properties. (I don't count zero emissions as one of those properties since there is a power house some place emitting something.). But they do some things wonderfully. They do not consume/waste any energy when stopped. They can be set up for regenerative braking so that slowing down puts juice back in the battery. Both of this can make significant improvements in efficiency in stop and go situations. So where should this technology be applied? (My opinion only of course). School buses, city buses, mail delivery vehicles, taxis, maybe police cars. I do not think they are well suited do long travel at this time.

Another vehicle type, Hybrid Electric. I am not talking about the dual drive vehicles that most companies are building with an engine and transmission driving one set of wheels and electric motors driving the other set. I'm talking about an electric car with a small engine/generator set. (Plug in hybrid I believe is the term, but I believe that term is being bastardized also) More expensive to build and buy than straight electric, but all the same advantages as EV. I know, now you have an IC engine spewing crap again, but the pure electric had a power plant some place. The thing is, other than locomotives, I've yet to see this done right.

My perception of done right: Because the engine is not hooked to the drive wheels it doesn't have to run well at all RPMs. It only has to start, idle and run at whatever speed the generator is designed to turn. So the engine can be tuned to run at that RPM at maximum efficiency. When I say tuned, I don't mean adjusting the carb and the timing, I mean built from the ground up with optimized bore and stoke for say 3600 RPM. Intake runners at the exact length. Tuned exhaust. 3600 RPM cams. Optimized valve size and quantity for 3600 RPM. When all of these things are optimized for one specific RPM efficiency skyrockets. This is the setup I'd like to see in long haul trucks, tour buses and any other vehicles that might be driven beyond their battery range on a regular basis.

I like electric vehicles. I also like some hybrids. I just think sometimes good technology is shoved into the wrong application where it is doomed to fail.

Edit: The more I think about it the more I realize that locomotives don't fit my bill of proper application either. No batteries, so no regenerative braking. They do use there electric motors as brakes on long down hill grades, put the just pump the electric they generate into heat sinks on the roof generating waste heat. I hate waste heat.
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Johnnylunchbox
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Another advantage to a internal combustion generator - electric direct drive is that there are no mechanical losses encountered in a traditional transmission/transfer case
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Ourdee
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 02:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How much is lost putting the power into the batteries?
How efficient are the electric motors and units to get that to the tires?
How much drag from tire to road?
How much aerodynamic drag?
How much energy goes into making the batteries, drivers, and motor?

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1118534_fact- of-the-week-internal-combustion-cars-still-waste-7 0-to-88-percent-of-energy
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Adrenaline_junkie
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2020 - 05:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ourdee,

Synchronis electric generators typically run 94% to 96% efficient. I believe DC traction motors run similar numbers. Motors can be mounted directly to the wheels so motor to wheel efficiency is just damn near 100%. Generator to motor conductor efficiency? Depends on conductor size, voltage and the length of the conductor. In a car these could be sized so as to make the energy loss in these conductors negligible. Aero and tire drag? Same as gasoline powered vehicle of the same size. Just use the same tires and the same shape body.

Energy to manufacture? I'm sure I don't know but likely similar to building a conventional cars since electric cars cost about the same as regular cars.
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