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Archive through January 20, 2021Patches30 01-20-21  08:18 am
         

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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 - 10:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There's also something on being sentenced to death for eating clams.

Which is understandable in context.
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Patches
Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

3 chapters where God declared all food clean.

Mark 7:16 - 23 KJV
16. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
17. And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18. And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19. Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20. And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22. Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23. All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Acts 10:11 - 17 KJV
11. And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12. Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17. Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

1 Tim 4:1 - 7 KJV
1. Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3. Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6. If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.
7. But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2021 - 02:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Patrick,

Remember the different classes of biblical law and their applicabilities: Civil Israeli law vs God's moral commandments. Not same-same. Only moral commandments applicable to us heathen gentiles. There is also Israeli Religious Ceremonial law, also not applicable to us heathen gentiles.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2021 - 03:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm certainly a heathen gentile.

The Book may be the most abused document in history. It wasn't written by one guy, so you've got contradiction galore, and it wasn't written in one century, and that's just the Old Testament.


The Quran was written by one guy, in one lifetime, and is still published in the original language. Yet it gets my vote for the Most Abused, even though the Old Testament predates it by thousands? ( And thus had more time to be exploited by Evil men )


Throwing quotes from a Holy Book at someone only has effect if they buy that brand.

How moved would you be if I quoted the Koran ( olde British spelling ) to convince you that woman is the servant of man?

How about I quote L Ron?


You don't have to believe in the divine perfection of The Book to believe it has essential truths.

That's true of the Quran, as well. Perhaps it's the "cafeteria Catholic" in me, but there's great wisdom in there. No surprise , it's plagiarized from the Bible and other books.

Sami, yes, it's astonishingly easy to offend, today. How a generation raised on The Simpsons, Sesame Street, Beavis... is So quick to claim moral superiority by way of outrage at everything, is alternate universe weird.

But if you want your views rejected out of hand, with zero consideration that you might be right, using biblical, aka medieval court English, is a pretty good idea. ( If you want to say that's part of the Party plan for social destruction, I partly agree. )

It's also a great way to get elbow room in a crowded elevator, but that requires a willingness to not be embarrassed and an odd sense of humor.
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Aesquire
Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2021 - 04:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake, you may understand the distinction between classes of law in scripture, but it's a big talking point in Atheist attacks on Christianity.

I've got a "meme" that's just a list of "laws" from the Bible that order you to kill people who X. It's not a short list.

It doesn't mess with me. I'm not atheist, or insecure in my faith.

But... Hmm. No. And, your comment that old Israeli civil law, Commandments, etc. are different, actually is decent reasoning that probably should be used to refute Patches's quote storm.

I wouldn't bother, both considering the source, : ) and a lack of will to do the work.

Context is so often needed to understand history, ( and much of the Bible is history )

Here's useless trivia. What fighter plane in WW2 had the best kill ratio?

The General Motors version of the Grumman Wildcat. Specifically the FM2 model. Mostly known for antisubmarine warfare in the Atlantic, it also participated in the invasion of southern France among other nigh forgotten battles. Up against FW 190 & Bf 109s over Europe, they racked up iirc 22/1.

Was it The Best fighter of The war? Far from it, a pre-war plane that lost to the Brewster Buffalo in initial trials, it was thus the second monoplane U.S. Navy fighter. Not a good bomb carrier, and in the single stage supercharged FM2 version, incapable of high altitude bomber escort or interception, and seriously under powered by mid war standards, it isn't close. But it held it's own against the legendary Zero, ( in the Grumman 2 stage supercharged version ) and at low altitude over France, the best the Luftwaffe sent against them, failed.

There are multiple reasons, but training of the pilots is on top of the list. Other factors require context... And I've gone on long enough. : )
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2021 - 07:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Atheist attacks on scripture are typically incredibly ignorant and maximally uncharitable. People who spend their time attacking that which they claim is fiction are a peculiar bunch. Like many militant ideologues, they care much less for knowledge than they do attacking and smearing people. For sure understanding of context are often vital.

Atheist memes are a horrible means to understand the Bible. Quite the opposite.

If you want to know how the faithful understand scripture, it's best to ask them. The www.biblehub.com web site has incredible resources for learning about the books of the bible, and there are plenty of other web sites dedicated to honest intellectual engagement with people who are sincerely interested in what it means to follow Christ.

Scripture says that we are all under a divine death sentence, justly earned. The wage of sin is death. Christ paid that sentence on our behalf if we are but wiling to claim that amazing gift and trust Him.

(Message edited by blake on January 21, 2021)
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Court
Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2021 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


inalienable
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Sami
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2021 - 02:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Patrick,

"Throwing quotes from a Holy Book at someone only has effect if they buy that brand.How moved would you be if I quoted the Koran ( olde British spelling ) to convince you that woman is the servant of man?"

I would be moved by that. It would show me that there are universal truths known by Jews, Christians and Muslims, although those truths may be worded differently due to linguistic and cultural differences.

I quoted the Bible because Patches/Sims was looking for an answer from a biblical perspective. I wasn't throwing around quotes, it was specifically asked.

There is wisdom in the Bible, I know atheists who are moved by the Psalms, for example.

(Message edited by Sami on January 22, 2021)
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2021 - 02:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Oh, certainly there is wisdom in the Holy books, even if it's not all understood by me. Those parts might not be so wise, I can't be sure. : )

& I'm Not accusing you of quote spraying. ; )

My point is quoting the Tao of Pooh ( pretty good, imho ) to someone who doesn't have belief in that book, isn't convincing.

"Here's the Word!" Alone, isn't enough, Unless you're already invested, ready to learn & struggle to get there. The message itself has to have a depth to it.

As it happens, understanding the context, ( more the medieval than the multi thousand years older original ) I get that help meet is a lovely sentiment, an accurate but incomplete picture.

That quote, in isolation, ( from the rest of the sermon/history/etc. ) is missing the "stand by your woman" part of the ideal relationship chorus. Imho.
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Sami
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2021 - 03:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Patrick, you sound like a Catholic. Catholics also believe the Word alone isn't enough, that you also need priests, bishops and the pope.

Are you secretly a Catholic? Just admit it. : )
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Sami
Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2021 - 05:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Court, there are no inalienable rights on Atheism. On Atheism, all rights can be taken away from or given away by the possessor at the drop of a hat. This would explain why the founding fathers of America held religion in high regard, see for example George Washington's farewell address to the nation. Without religion, any talk about inalienable rights is window dressing at best.
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2021 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Catholic? They never Excommunicated me, so...

I'm from a mixed faith family, that Irish song about green & orange, mother & father? Reverse the faiths & you got it.

Raised & Baptized Catholic. Not my fault or choice, I was a wee babe. Also raised Lutheran, and later Episcopal, the "not Roman catholic" church, then as I got older, studied various faiths, mostly "Eastern", ( the Tao of Pooh is highly recommended ) and bothered to read several different bibles, some Talmud, the Koran ( old spelling ) and Stranger in a Strange Land. Oh, and that book with the alien ghosts and nuclear volcanoes... which was somewhat boring, ymmv.

So... Not so much Catholic, and zero respect or need for shamans, or Papal Hierarchy. Bishops I only know from British humor and evading criminal pedophilia prosecution.

Probably my favorite prayers in cinema are in this clip...

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Chauly
Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2021 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Patrick, Google : Jeezits
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Aesquire
Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2021 - 01:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry, Google is not my Faith. It's too CCP.
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