| Author | Message | ||
     Sami |
Patches, It is not true that Jews don't love anybody else besides themselves. It may be true that Jews have a strong in-group preference, but that doesn't mean that they don't love anybody else besides themselves. In-group preference is not a bad thing, most people have an in-group preference. I agree that Judaism is a religion, not a race. Also, Jews are a people, not a race. People can convert to become Jews, for example the Ethiopan woman from those verses. | ||
| Patches |
Preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ in Israel today you can be killed. "Law of Return" you can't Immigrate to Israel unless you can prove you are descendant of Israel or convert to Judaism. Denial of citizenship Section 2(b) of the Law of Return empowers the Minister of Interior to deny Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return on a number of grounds. For example, an applicant may be denied citizenship if he or she is considered a threat to the security of the State of Israel (e.g. treason against the Jewish State), or who has a past criminal record involving a serious crime, such as murder, and poses a danger to the well-being of the State of Israel; or, for example, may be a fugitive in another country for any felony (unless they are persecution victims); or such persons who, by virtue of their illness, may pose a serious public health risk to the people of Israel; as also any person who may be actively engaged in any campaign that vociferously speaks out against the Jewish people and undermines their cause (such as demagoguery).[17] This provision has been used to exclude applicants a handful of times since Israel's establishment. Notable cases include Robert Soblen, an American Communist who spied for the Soviet Union and fled to Israel in an attempt to escape a life sentence; Meyer Lansky, an American mobster who was initially granted entry to Israel but was expelled two years later; and Victor Vancier, an American Kahanist activist convicted of involvement in a series of bombings. "The granting of citizenship under the Law of Return does not prevent a person being extradited back to another country under an extradition treaty with that other country." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return | ||
| Sami |
Patches, I'm aware of the Law of Return and its exclusions. Killing people for preaching the Gospel is not something that the State of Israel condones. People who incite violence against Christians or justify setting fire to churches have been brought to court to face justice. Here is an example: Radical Jewish group’s head advocates burning churches Benzi Gopshtain of Lehava says Jewish law mandates putting churches to the torch, prepared to sit in prison for saying so https://www.timesofisrael.com/radical-jewish-group s-head-advocates-burning-churches/ | ||
| Pwnzor |
Matthew 5:44 King James Version 44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; I have to apply this at work... a lot. | ||
| Ourdee |
Years ago I had a man at work who was a "little" touched in the head. In his head I was doing him wrong. He drove a fork truck into a tub I was loading with an air hoist, driving the tub into me. I had to go to medical. Management got involved and had a meeting with the two of us. We each had an hour solo with the group of managers. I had dates times and witnesses in a diary going back months. They then brought us both in together. After basically telling us we would both be terminated if there were any more problems they asked if we had any more questions. I held up my hand. I said if there was anything I could change in my actions, words, anything at all; if this man would tell me I would change to accommodate his request. The head person said that sounds fair. He then asked the other person and he stood up and went ballistic. At this point everything broke loose and they started asking if this was what happened at his last plant, if this was what happened in the last department he got kicked out of at this plant. Management took him some where else and apologised to me. I said enough said. I had been in prayer continually about the situation. In the hour while he was solo with the group I felt lead to ask the one question. The next day my wife and I went to an Italian restaurant to eat. The only 2 open chairs in the place were at a table with all those manager from the group from the day before. About a year later I was asked about what happened with the incident and I told them I pray for the person every day. There was a gasp. I said, "NO, I pray for his salvation." | ||
| Pwnzor |
I just got done taking 4 days off work without pay because of something that happened for which I was 25% responsible. Did the other 75% of the responsible parties lose any income? No. It would have been 5 days, but the prevailing wisdom is that Fridays without me around to pick up all the slack would just be bad for business. Don't worry, I spent my time off praying about it, and I was led to create a new org chart with the other 75% squarely in the 100% responsibility zone. The Lord helps those who help themselves. Ain't that something? (Message edited by pwnzor on January 31, 2020) | ||
| Blake |
This is working out great. Note that if you don't love Jews, then you don't love Jesus or the Apostle's. Think about that Patches. Christ himself told the Jews to do as the temple authorities say, just not as they do. How do you reconcile that with your views? As far as not being saved, I reckon most people professing to be Christians fit that description too. We love them anyway, along with all our neighbors, even the "Samaritans." I know plenty of Roman Catholics who are born again saved. Sincere repentance and trust in Christ as savior and redeemer is all that is required. I'll leave the ultimate judging to the supreme judge of the world. I agree with Sami, Jews are a people, as clearly noted in the New Testament. Descendants from the tribe of Judah, yes? We have secular and religious varieties. Patches: Do you love black people? | ||
| Patches |
Blake,- Did you not read the verse I posted. Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2020 - 09:19 pm: "Matthew 5:44 King James Version 44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" - Jews(Judaism) is the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 3:9 King James Version (KJV) 9. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. - Receive Antichrist not into your house, neither bid Antichrist God speed. 2 John 1: 7- 11 King James Version (KJV) 7. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. Patches: Do you love black people? 'Matthew 5:44 King James Version'! There is only one 'race' of people, that is the 'Human Race'. | ||
| Sami |
Here are 2 questions: Can people become Christians? Can people become Jews? I will answer these in this manner: People can become Christians, for example Saul who became Paul. People can also become Jews. The Ethiopian woman for example, Moses' wife. I agree that Jews are not a ''race'' of people, but they are nevertheless a people. What is a ''people''? According to Oxford: https://www.lexico.com/definition/people ''2 [treated as singular or plural] The members of a particular nation, community, or ethnic group.'' Notice that ''Jewish people'' is not a racial term. Rather, ''Jewish people'' are members of a particular nation, community, or ethnic group. ''Ethic group'' is not a racial group either. Being a member of an ethnic group means belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition. ethnicity The fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition. https://www.lexico.com/definition/ethnicity | ||
| Aesquire |
...which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie... This is plainly about false believers, fakes who pretend to worship God. You appear to misunderstand it?? It's about bringing unbelievers to God, not a condemnation of believers. ( Jews ) I have my own opinions on the KJV Bible, but it defined middle English along with Shakespeare and in a slightly less fancy form, being meant for any literate person. Thus it's pretty understandable, although a modern kid will find many obsolete words. You can usually figure them out from context. I had an advantage as my parents were readers, and the repeated questions as to definition of strange words earned me... "Look it up!" & an old dictionary ... which still had words like "verily" ( no sh$t ) etc. There's a reason that the KJV was translated into modern English. Half the people are below average.  I enjoy Shakespeare plays in the original, ( great insults! ) but regressive education has de-emphasized reading, especially dead white dudes. Many are too lazy to learn "forsooth!" ( no sh4t ) and baby language is considered better than total ignorance by many. I can certainly see objections to that view. But I'm biased, by 1st grade I was reading above a "6th grade level" which is now post graduate? & in 4th grade discovered the unauthorized edition of LOTR. Among others... The most familiar part of the Harry Potter books to me was the forbidden section of the school library. I spent considerable time sneaking books out of there. ( much later I discovered, that the adult only section wasn't just to keep grubby little hands off the books, but a basic sorting mechanism for the intelligence and curiosity of kids. You were expected to try and read forbidden books. The things you learn dating a Librarian! ) | ||
| Aesquire |
Lest I take on airs & give free rein to unbridled crowing on my phrenic prowess, I still have many words in my vocabulary that I mispronounce. Often never having heard them spoken aloud. Still, I can flirt in middle English, it's made for it! Olde English I learned to read Beowulf, which doesn't impress the Ladies so much. Can't say I'm fluent. Chaucer is much better to pick up wenches! (Message edited by Aesquire on February 02, 2020) | ||
| Patches |
Aesquire,- "This is plainly about false believers, fakes who pretend to worship God." What other religions has 'synagogues' - Sami,- Judaism teaches Jesus Christ is NOT the Savior(Messiah), if Jews did they would no longer be Jews they would be Christians. Jews vs Christians don't worship the same God. Ethnicity and Religion not the same. Donald Trump is Caucasian does that make him Christian. I don't think so. "Trump is a Presbyterian. As a child, he attended the First Presbyterian Church in Jamaica, Queens, where he had his confirmation. In the 1970s, his parents joined the Marble Collegiate Church in Manhattan, part of the Reformed Church. The pastor at Marble, Norman Vincent Peale, ministered to Trump's family and mentored him until Peale's death in 1993." "In 2015, Trump's campaign released a list of religious advisers, including James Dobson, Jerry Falwell Jr., Ralph Reed, Michele Bachmann, and Robert Jeffress. In November 2019, Trump appointed his personal pastor, controversial televangelist Paula White, to the White House Office of Public Liaison." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump (Paula White is a False Prophet Antichrist) | ||
| Sami |
Patches, Anyone who worships One God worships the same God. Christians, Jews and Muslims worship One God, therefore they worship the same God. That being said, people can worship the same God without agreeing on the nature of God. For example, Christians believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit. Jews and Muslims don't believe this. However, just because Jews and Muslims don't believe this doesn't mean that they don't worship the same God. Did the Samaritans believe in the same God? If they believed that God is One (Mark 12:29), then yes. | ||
| Patches |
Moloch, Chiun and Remphan not the father of Jesus Christ. Six point star not of 'God the Father'. Amos 5:26 - King James Version (KJV) 26. But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Acts 7:43 - King James Version (KJV) 43. Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon. | ||
| Aesquire |
What other religions has 'synagogues' What other religion was Jesus of Nazareth familiar with? The language in the passage YOU quoted was plain enough for 3rd graders. Revelation 3:9 King James Version (KJV) 9. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. "Look, I declare them the church of Satan, the liars that claim to be Jews, but are not, and I will make them come and worship you and know the love I have." that's a mild paraphrase with modern syntax. It's about fake religious people. Fake Jews, no less. There's a joke where a guy is named Moloch. Nice guy. Someone asks him how he was named. "What's wrong with my name? My Mother picked it out of the Bible!" Um,did she read it? "Nah, I had eight brothers, nobody had time for stuff like that on the farm." | ||
| Patches |
Aesquire,- There NO explaining anything to you, you can never understand. Jesus is God. YOU Worship him. God The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit- these Three are One. | ||
| Hootowl |
Welcome to the club, Pat! And if you have a contrary opinion, Sami, you’ll soon join us. We are unteachable and cannot read. Which is rich, coming from a functional illiterate. | ||
| Ourdee |
If the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are One, and we know The Son's name is Jesus. Why don't we just call God "Jesus"? | ||
| Hootowl |
We do. The Trinity is sometimes referred to as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Three in one, one in three. It's an article of faith, beautifully expressed in the Nicene Creed. | ||
| Aesquire |
Hoot, Am I wrong in my interpretation of that passage? I doubt you'll just declare I'm going to hell for getting something wrong. Patches actually Affirms my faith. What ever it is, it isn't his. I'm quite comfortable with that. I still have my doubts he's actually Christian, but he hasn't addressed that. And I'm not going to argue the Trinity. I've got 3 different taught definitions, all similar, and have read about Byzantine conflict on the subject. I'm going to stick to a Byzantine Heresy, which is "arguing about the Trinity is a distraction from the message of Christ". Which would get you burned at the stake 1500 years ago. | ||
| Hootowl |
No, I don’t think you are. But I’ve been admonished that I fail to comprehend and am doomed to hell by a guy who, from what I can tell, doesn’t understand what he's reading. It’s been demonstrated several times. That, combined with his atrocious grammar and misspellings, leads me to believe he’s full of crap and uses the bible only as a weapon against Jews and other people he hates. This is the kind of blind zealotry the left points to when they mock religious people. Irrelevant biblical quotation in 5...4...3... | ||
| Ourdee |
"And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man" There, got that out of the way. | ||
| Ourdee |
I Like God. | ||
| Ourdee |
As a Christian I have a problem with Christians that are hateful in the way they judge others and their maintaining or carrying their selves like they are above people that they meet. I try to never answer with a yes or no when asked if I think they are saved. I simply ask them what they think the bible says about their state. I do not ignore their question either. If they are asking, to me it as serious as someone expressing suicidal tendencies. The state of their faith is dire. If they need to repent and I tell them they are fine, I have done them no favor. If they are fine in my eyes but have doubts, they are not fine. My favorite conversations are on prayer and fasting. That is where the power is. I like that in our weakness He is strong. Paul says, “But by the grace of God I am what I am …” 1 Corinthians 15:10. | ||
| Patches |
Your blinded and can not see. I doubt any of you can come to the truth. More "Irrelevant biblical quotation",- Hootowl when your blinded Gods Word makes no sense to you. John 12:37- 43 King James Version (KJV) 37. But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38. That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39. Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40. He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. 42. Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43. For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. | ||
| Hootowl |
When you misinterpret scripture, your words make no sense to me. When you insist that Jews don’t worship the same God as Christians, your words make no sense to me. But mostly, your poor grasp of English makes it painful to read your posts and you make no sense to me. Yeah, grammar Nazi. I know. I still hold that if your brain is so feeble that you cannot command your native tongue at much beyond a third grade level, your opinions are not ones I put much stock in. | ||
| Patches |
Hootowl,- I can not help you, grammar don't make you smart. If my post are so painful to read, why do you read them. Shouldn't you have something better to do with your more intelligent mind. Your lost. - Jesus told the Jews they didn't believe Moses writings or God Word. Jews still do not get it. John 5 King James Version (KJV) 46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? - Without the Son Jesus you don't have the Father God. Jews don't worship the same God. 1 John 2:23 King James Version (KJV) 23. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. | ||
| Hootowl |
I’m not asking for your help, Patches. I’m not sure where you got that idea. Let me see whether I can summarize your posts. I’m paraphrasing. “Jews are bad. They will burn in a lake of fire.” “If you don't agree with everything I write, no matter how demonstrably false, you will burn in a lake of fire.” “All written texts of the Bible other than KJV are works of Satan, and you will burn in a lake of fire for reading them.” Sound about right? | ||
| Aesquire |
Sounds close to me. Hoot, I've tried to share my opinion that Patches's shtick is off putting, but... If you don't like the lake of fire of his, you might consider alternatives. "Everyone is going to Hell according someone's religion." Anon http://www.religioustolerance.org/heav_hel.htm Viking Hel is a cold boring place. There might be a giant snake that eats people. I'm unclear on what happens to them then. Not all Norse faiths have that. http://www.religioustolerance.org/hel_bibl1.htm There's quite a lot of difference in how the various Christian sects view Hell and how you get there. The Catholics are particularly sadistic in the tales they tell children. George Carlin used that in his comedy. http://www.religioustolerance.org/heav_hel1.htm | ||
| Aesquire |
From the first link in my previous post. Two further observations about Hell by the webmaster: Jesus is quoted in the Sheep and Goats section (Matthew 25:31-46) as saying that there is only one criterion that decides whether a person will be sent to Heaven or Hell: That is, their behavior -- while alive on earth -- towards persons in need: whether they gave food to the hungry, gave drinks to the thirsty, gave friendship to the lonely, gave clothes to the needy, nursed persons who were sick, and visited those in prison. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people have treated others with kindness at some times, and ignored their needs at other times. The passage gives no method of evaluating the behavior of an individual to predict whether they have reached a passing grade to attain Heaven. This has caused high anxiety in some individuals. Most of the discussions of Hell in the New Testament by followers of Jesus also said that there is only one criterion that decides whether a person will be sent to Heaven or Hell. However, it is a very different criterion: It was whether they held the right beliefs about Jesus. For example John 3:16 is translated in the King James Version as: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Unfortunately, the verse does not say precisely what one must believe about Jesus. Thus, it is impossible to know in advance exactly who will end up in Hell. Also, this passage seems to indicate that the options are Heaven and annihilation, not Heaven or Hell. It seems to me to be unnecessarily complex. I'm inclined to think your actions determine your afterlife. But that's not what many tell me, including our host. |
