| Author | Message | ||
     Patches |
It's COLD outside. | ||
| Hootowl |
Wikipedia? Seriously? | ||
| Hootowl |
But, OK, since we’re playing that game. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_the_Talmu d So, which blog post is accurate? I personally never believe anything on wikipedia that is about politics or religion. | ||
| Aesquire |
Wow! That reminds me of certain written rants from the early 20th century. And not from a happy memory section of history. Well, there are certainly many references to the Greek writer Celsus and this tale of sordid affairs. Apparently it's an anti Christian & anti Jewish cult thing from the 4th century. I'm not going to bother digging further into the muck to cross check which current death cults rely on it to defame Christians or Jews. https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/978069 1148052/the-aryan-jesus http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/was-pantera-real ly-the-father-of-jesus Lots more... As I vaguely recall, this was used by Marxist/Leninist backs as an anti-christian anti- "any religion except Marxism" propaganda campaign to both discredit Christianity among the ignorant peasants and what we would call now "woke" students desperate for a community. And, anti-Jew propaganda in Germany and Russia, and the rest of Europe. ( especially France and England ) Nevermind that the same propaganda is used to discredit Christianity and whip up hate against Jews because it's a discredit Christianity propaganda. Socialists don't care about consistency in their lies, since their lies encompasses their entire political and emotional thought processes. Just see today's political circus. I included the Nazi reference above as that appears to be the main river of this tale to contemporary American evangelical cults. After all National Socialism and International Communism have The same roots and feces piles of propaganda. That they are branches of the same faith that loath each other isn't unusual. Seldom taught or admitted to by Leftists who want to deny Nazis were spiritual brothers, but facts as always, differ from Leftist Lore. The use of evangelical Christian ( Germany was the home of Protestant schism ) cover to pump Jew Hatred for the Nazis is ironic since The Nazi leaders were seriously into neo-pagan cults. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vril Mostly this is now flying saucer cult stuff, with the SS and flying saucer propelled by alien revelations technology....blah blah. Have fun. To be fair, hot blonde cult scam babes with nude pictures is more entertaining to me than Jew hating Greek old guys who literally have zero evidence of ever existing outside rants about how wrong and evil they were. Other than speculation that Patches is really a Leftist anti-judeo-christan troll out to make Evangelical Christians look horrible and spread Jew Hatred, for the greater glory of The Holy State, that should sum up any discussion on this subject. Pantera, flying saucers, elixirs of life, aliens in visions, bad science fiction, Helena Bratavsky, occult spritualism,..... Same ball of cat fur vomit apparently. ( and that's being nice ) | ||
| Aesquire |
I need a shower. I enjoy a good conspiracy theory. I also like superhero movies. I don't believe any of that stuff. I love the Nazi flying saucer stuff that originated apparently in the 1950s. The cults in the late 19th century on were and are real, and at the highest levels of Nazi leaders may have been scarily influential. Especially since it's bad sci-fi sex cult stuff.... I'd love to say we are smarter now, but...Scientology. And I've studied the Masonic/Knights Templar conspiracy theories, which were French propaganda from the government out to steal their funds. ( I expect the government of Virginia to try the same thing with the NRA. Same sh$%, different century ) Makes for a good tv series, But I don't want to ever go back into that dark corner of human hatred that is Patches's haunt. Although reading about it decades ago does protect me from it fooling me today. Bad enough there's 2 major religions that actually are conquering the planet as we speak and hate Christians and Jews, without dealing with 1500-1900 year old conspiracy theories that are depressingly still used to divide and conquer us.... By militant Islamists and Leftists Today. See this week's digression from polite religious discussion of beliefs. But ultimately knowing history, even the psychotic parts, lets you intelligently grasp when you are being fed wisdom or feces wrapped in candy. That bad taste in your mouth when you read that stuff? It's a clue. | ||
| Blake |
Patches, Jeff (Hootowl) explained the folly of your Talmud quote mining. I checked it out and verified it. I have friends who are Orthodox Jews and they confirm that nothing exceeds the Torah. You're dead wrong on that. You're bizarrely misrepresenting what actual Orthodox Jews believe. You're trying to tell us what Judaism is, but you're ignorant of it. So here's the deal. First, this topic is about theology and knowledge, not Judaism. If you want to start a topic specifically about Judaism, please do so. My good friend Simi who just joined the forum here at my invite has some excellent insight into Judaism and some of its effects throught the last two millenia. It indeed has some serious issues. So does Rome. So do all constructs of man claiming religious supremacy. The heart of man is dark. Yours, mine, everyone's included. People here are trying to educate you, but you're having none of it. That's a bad sign. Your as the clanging gong described by Paul. Do you deny it? If you continue to clang the same falacious gong trying to smear Judaism with out of context quote mining, then you'll be asked to cease posting altogether on such topics. A humble loving person would ask an actual adherent of Judaism about the verses you've identified, rather than pretending expertise. My goodness, you're doing the same thing to Judaism and the Talmud that militant atheists do to the Bible, "God teaches genocide, rape, and slavery..."; you know the lines. I'm asking you to humble yourself, back off, consider your intent, and your lack of knowledge, and treat others as you would be treated, which means to err on the side of grace and humility rather than self-confident arrogance. Can you please do that? BadWeB isn't a free speech zone. You're falacious smear against Judaism has been removed for being malevolent and slanderous and off topic. | ||
| Blake |
Gerard, Jeff, Patrick, and others, thanks to all who engaged Patches on his unwelcome content. I can't tell you how much that is appreciated. This forum self-moderates and keeps it real thanks to the efforts of y'all. Truth matters. Malice sucks. Humility and grace rock. Arrogance sucks. | ||
| Aesquire |
Thank you. On the old TV show Babylon 5, the doctor belonged to a fictional future church that believed it probable that every faith had some insight into the Truth. And that this fictional church knew it didn't have the Complete Truth, so encouraged it's members to go and seek the missing pieces out among all the other faiths. I don't know if I'd be a member, but the concept seems sound. I've found tiny bits many places that I hope help me in my limited understanding. Daoist ( Tao or Taoist in Jepan ) philosophy boils down as I posted a while back. You are what you do. You do what you are. That's so simple it's deep. Or I don't grasp it yet. Hard to tell.  Wicca is... not to be insulting, mostly fantasy. It's really new, much younger than it's own mythos. Yet, New Age Hippie as it is, the "do as you will if it harm no other" creed is better than many. Even if it seems to licence self destructive excess. Because even if it's an echo of the adolescent demand for release from social "norms", aka, "I wanna get high and get laid!" Adults realize you always have effects on others by your actions and inaction. The Christian church in it's various forms, preaches love of other people and asks understanding be attempted before reacting with violence or social force. That doesn't suck. There's stuff to dislike too. I feel no need to expand on that. Even Islam has it's good points. I have complained it's a warlord's tool for subjugation, but since it was largely copied from other faiths, some good bits snuck in. And every organization created by & run by humans can be exploited by evil men. Almost all the "churches" I've heard of have as a goal, to give a framework or code of conduct, to control behavior. THat, too, can be misused, or applied poorly, or be just wrong. So, carry on. I'm learning.  Blessings be upon you. | ||
| Blake |
Patrick: Christ and thus Christianity is all about Christ Himself through pure grace taking on the penalty for our sins and redeeming all of us repentant sinners back to righteousness in the eyes of our perfectly just and righteous creator. That is it Patrick. That is Christ. That is Christianity. Repent and trust in Him, that what He did has paid your debt, washed you clean of your sins, just so long as you repent, meaning acknowledge them rather than call them good. No other religion offers that. Judaism requires blood sacrifice to atone for sins against God. But since the temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. there could be no more blood sacrifices. Passover was the evening in Egypt where the blood of a lamb marking a household's lintel protected firstborn therein from the wrath of God. Christ is the lamb of God, the final perfect blood sacrifice to atone for all our sins, no further sacrifice is needed. Christ himself paid the penalty for our crimes against God. All we need do is repent and accept his Amazing Grace, ... how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me... Your dispute concerns that which is contrary to good, contrary to our creator's divine nature. You and Eve and many many folks have the exact same issue. That's what you don't like. We like our sin. Anyway, that's what Christianity is about. | ||
| Aesquire |
Thank you. Clear, concise, much better than my thumbnail sketch. https://6dollarshirts.com/i-can-explain-it-to-you? | ||
| Patches |
Blake,- I'm KJV Only. I do not want to 'throw stones' and will do my best not to 'throw stones' and Please don't take it as such. I can't change what I believe. You can believe what you want too believe- that is what Freewill to choose is. -- To start with The Roman Catholic Church(Rome) has nothing to do with I believe. Without the KJV everything I believe in is a myth, Jesus is not 'The Only Begotten Son of God' therefore can not Save me. Without Jesus the Christ I have no Salvation. All there is left is Comic book gods mythology. I will Never Bow to them. Or Judaism, I can never convert to Judaism. | ||
| Ourdee |
Pat, How were people saved prior to 1611? | ||
| Patches |
Ourdee,- You will have to do your own research, I can not help you. I don't want to make Daddy(Blake... I Know, just kidding) mad at me again. I do not want to 'throw stones' nor I am trying to 'throw stones' so Please don't take it as such. | ||
| Aesquire |
Feel free to believe as you will, if it harm no other. But I disagree, respectfully. If every copy of that one version of the judeo-christian holy tradition, the KJV, were gathered by evil men & burned, ( God forbid ) would that mean Jesus never preached his message? Nonsense. Perhaps some of the details would be lost, and I doubt that, but the message Blake posted above would live on from the other versions, and your memory, if nothing else. That I don't believe that one version is the Only One Truth doesn't change your belief, nor is it at all important to me to change your mind. But it's silly to think that if you had NEVER SEEN or heard of the KJV that you could not believe in salvation, God, Jesus, etc. It might have been harder for you. If you just aren't convinced by the, say, NLT version, and don't think you could accept it's message... I understand. Or some version in 1950s slang, or Klingon. It's easy to understand that might not enlighten you, simply because you were uncomfortable with it's language. We are talking faith, here. Here's where I got the name of the NLT version. The first on the list to the query "bible versions comparison" . I make no recommendation of it, nor did I read it all. Just looked up a semi random version name. https://lavendervines.com/bible-translation-compar ison/ | ||
| Blake |
Patches: I'm certainly not mad, or even angry. Just asking for your help in maintaining substantive honest discussion here. Thank you for recognizing my concerns. Criticize other religions, the ideas and doctrines and theology mistakes all you like. Just please avoid posting content that demonizes entire groups of people. Christ was a Jewish Jew and so were the Apostle's with the possible exception of just one. I think brushing off the question about how people were saved before 1611 reveals the utter bankruptcy of your insistence that the KJV is the only means to truth. God gave us the ability to reason and analyze such issues logically, yes? We certainly need not agree. Let's just please try not to be the clanging gong that Paul warned us against. Patches, do you love Jews? | ||
| Ourdee |
Pat, My intent was not to make or have you do research for me. Nor was it an attempt at trolling you. The book of Acts is the history of the church and presents how people were saved prior to 1611. I look at history to gather what does and does not work in situations. I like the KJV. If that version does not explain a change in the rules for being saved from the early church till now, I take it to mean I should be saved in the manner they were. | ||
| Hootowl |
I don’t think that was the argument at all. It was asserted that kjv was the only correct version of God’s word. To me, that is ridiculous on its face. Does that mean that the books it was translated from are invalid? How does that work? | ||
| Ourdee |
I often look at the source material to try and get a clearer view. When looking at the Hebrew I wish I had the picture for the words available. | ||
| Patches |
Blake,- They "demonize" themselves. catholicism and judaism not Christian or Saved. 1 John 2:22 King James Version 22. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. -- Jesus Christ never tought judaism. -- "how people were saved before 1611" you all can do your own research can't you, you're that intelligent an't you? Before 1611 they had Textus Receptus, or "Received Text," refers to the Greek text of the New Testament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textus_Receptus Before the Textus Receptus they had the 'Writings of the Apostles' from what I understand. (Not the codex sinaiticus, codex vaticanus or dead sea scrolls) If you DON'T believe there is a Bible that is not-corrupted and is 'The True Word of God' you can-not be Saved and Will Burn in Hell for Eternity. -- "do you love Jews?" no- not for what they teach. "Jews" are a 'religion' not a 'people', zionism is a false teaching too. There is only one 'race' of people, that is the 'Human Race'. Matthew 5:44 King James Version 44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; - catholicism and judaism are of Anti-Christ and not Saved if not Reprobate. your problem is with God's belief not my belief I'm just easier to attack. I answered your questions before and was labeled a 'antisemite' and was 'censored' making discriminating against and demonizing my beliefs OK... I can't help you. | ||
| Patches |
Hootowl,- KJV is the only NON-Corrupted version of 'God’s Word' IN MODERN ENGLISH. You lack understanding. | ||
| Hootowl |
Interesting. KJV is not written in modern English. Perhaps it is not me who lacks understanding. | ||
| Ourdee |
Pat, It is non corrupted for the most part. The English is from 408 years ago. | ||
| Patches |
Hootowl,- Ourdee,- A five year old can read and understand the KJV Bible yet you lack understanding because your Reprobate, your end is to Burn in Hell. | ||
| Hootowl |
My reprobate? What is that? I can read kjv. Your ramblings and burn-in-hell rhetoric, in contrast, are difficult to decipher. | ||
| Patches |
I can't help you. | ||
| Hootowl |
That is because you lack understanding. | ||
| Patches |
Hootowl,- You can call yourself christian all you want but your not. You have too believe God's Word first, you don't. Your blinded and lost, I can't help you. | ||
| Sami |
Blake: ''So here's the deal. First, this topic is about theology and knowledge, not Judaism. If you want to start a topic specifically about Judaism, please do so. My good friend Simi who just joined the forum here at my invite has some excellent insight into Judaism and some of its effects throught the last two millenia. It indeed has some serious issues. So does Rome. So do all constructs of man claiming religious supremacy. '' Thanks for the invite Blake, still getting used to the format. I agree that every religion has its effects and issues, it would be wrong to attribute all those effects and issues to every believer of said religion. People have done good and bad things throughout history in the name of religion. Christians and Jews have different religions and beliefs, so it makes sense that differences in religion and beliefs result in differences in effects and issues throughout history. Wherever there are differences in religion and beliefs, there is bound to be differences in how people act for the simple reason that people act on what they believe to be true. Christians believe certain things to be true. An example of this would be the Divinity of Jesus Christ, Christians believe this, but Jews and Muslims don't. Christians act on this belief by, for example, building churches dedicated to Jesus Christ and preaching the Gospel to Jews and Gentiles. Patches said that Jews are a religion, not a people. I disagree, Jews are a people. https://www.lexico.com/definition/people ''2 [treated as singular or plural] The members of a particular nation, community, or ethnic group.'' By this definition, Jews are a people. Similarly, by this definition, Christians are a people, so are Muslims a people. Christians should love their neighbours, which includes Jews and Muslims. If we only love those who love us, then we are no better than tax collectors (no offense to tax collectors). Matthew 5:46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? (Message edited by Sami on January 31, 2020) | ||
| Aesquire |
Oh, feel free to offend tax collectors! | ||
| Patches |
Sami,- do you not read! or just not understand.,- 'Patches... Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2020 - 09:19 pm:' "do you love Jews?" no- not for what they teach. "Jews" are a 'religion' not a 'people', zionism is a false teaching too. There is only one 'race' of people, that is the 'Human Race'. Matthew 5:44 King James Version 44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; --- Sami,- When did jews start loving anybody else besides themselves? - Sami, Blake,- This 'Exodus 12:48' Old Testament verse shows anybody can be of Israel as long as they keep the Commandments. 'Numbers 12:1' shows Moses had an Ethiopian Wife. Race has nothing to do with Judaism. Judaism is a Religion. Exodus 12:48 King James Version 48. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. Numbers 12:1 King James Version 1. And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman. |
