| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
I respectfully disagree that salvation is on only one copyrighted path. I won't argue with your belief that there were divine editorial miracles that stopped on a certain date. You can argue, rightfully, that after the Flood we were told that there would be no more divine cleansing of the sinners, and it's up to us. That certainly is a "no more past here date". But I feel no obligation to share that belief. The "my way or the highway" one and only one very particular subdivision true path attitude is not peculiar to your personal belief. Many faiths in history to this day make the same claim. That's human selfishness overlaid on what may be. I've argued this with Jesuit scholars that are far more glib than I or you. No matter how floral the language, circular reasoning is still a logic loop. A person or text cannot prove it is correct by saying it is. And theists who are intolerant of any deviation from their own brand are common, the differences are in their behavior towards other people. Some may assert, falsely, that my deviation from their brand means I worship Satan. I do not. Some may insist I am going to hell if I do not believe exactly as they do. Maybe. We'll see, or not. I can live with and ignore or mock such folk. Some would kill me for not having the exact same brand & style of belief. Those I can't live with. My brand understands their nature, and I will deal with them as needful. Examples abound. The Ayatollahs of Iran. The Taliban. Eric Swalwell. Luckily I have little to do with them in my daily life. | ||
| Aesquire |
The Klingon comment was inspired by a story ( may or may not be true ) of a fellow that met his future wife at a con. She spoke little English, he no French, so for the first months of their courting communicated in Klingon. How romantic. If it's good enough for love, it's good to spread the Gospel. And yes, it's true that the Bible will be available in Klingon. I only learned & have long forgotten a few words & phrases in Klingon. German in jr. High, and mostly forgotten. Weirdly, syntax stuck. Declarations of love in German sound like military orders. I can only imagine Klingon pillow talk. The French version of my boiler manual ( Sold also in Canada, thus bilingual ) is quite romantic. Go figure. Literal translation from Greek is tricky. I keep meaning to learn Attic Greek, but it's more fun doing amateur engineering. There I just have to keep feet, meters, slugs and dimmensionless numbers straight. | ||
| Aesquire |
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| Aesquire |
The above doesn't address the truth of God, or The Gods, or the lack thereof. But it's not bad at objective reality. The next...science fiction. But not nonsense. It is close to the thoughts of Plato, but not... The speaker ( if you missed this series ) is a smart guy, and against his wishes, became a spiritual leader to his people. ( a funny story of it's own ) this is a talk he agreed to give, just so they'd quit following him around and trying to worship him. The human in the door just asked to watch, and...gets it. You could do worse trying to explain the answers to these 2 questions. It's not surprising that he fails. Metaphor can be interesting, even useful, but... I don't claim this to be any great wisdom. but it's a decent metaphor and a lesson. | ||
| Patches |
Sound like eastern mysticism "gandhi" lies. doctrines of man not the True Living God. Jeremiah 7:8 King James Version (KJV) 8. Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. | ||
| Crusty |
Thus Spake Rod Serling. | ||
| Blake |
Squids: "I'm still looking, observing, avoiding the dogmatic." Are you dogmatic about avoiding the dogmatic? Heh.  | ||
| Blake |
Gerard (H0gwash):
>>> I disagree with his assumption that "If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it, however helpful it might be." Then it seems that Christianity is not at all what you think it is. Christ took on human form for one reason. | ||
| H0gwash |
I'm at peace with that. | ||
| 86129squids |
"Are you dogmatic about avoiding the dogmatic? Heh." Good one, Blake. Here's one for today... " I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education." Wilson Mizener | ||
| 86129squids |
Patches has a passion. Easy now, John. He's got the Passion. Here's something I've wanted to debate. Why was Mel Gibson's Jesus snuff movie, "The Passion of Christ" worthy of bussing full congregations, including children to see, but the earlier movie, "The Last Temptation Of Christ" boycotted and petitioned by same folk? I felt the second movie was much better. Worth rewatching. I find it reprehensible that folks would send their underage children in droves to see the "Passion". My sister, a Baptist chaplain, who's been in the ministry her entire life, didn't like it either. Using mild words there. | ||
| Patches |
"Patches has a passion.",- No, just born again child of God. Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God is my Savior. --- squid,- "The Passion of Christ", Even if it shows Jesus Betrayal by Judas Iscariot, Scourging, Crucifixion by the Romans the Jews killed Jesus. It is still not a Biblical account just Hollywood. Those that think its a good Christian movie have never read the bible. Acts 17:29 King James Version (KJV) 29. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. - The Last Temptation Of Christ,- [a]Witchcraft based Demonic Bastardizing of the Word of God. Jesus created Lucifer, he didn't half to preform some demonic witch spell to talk to the devil(Honi the Circle Maker). John 8:58 King James Version (KJV) 58. Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. [b]Jesus wasn't a carpenter, that was a lie of the Jews. Matthew 13:54- 55 King James Version (KJV) 54. And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? 55. Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? [c]Jesus didn't have an affair with Mary Magdalene. John 20 King James Version (KJV) 17. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her. I wouldn't recommend neither movie to a saved Christian. --- My sister, a Baptist chaplain,- That a New One. Not Biblical anyway. Is She the Husband of one Wife? 'Biblical Requirements for Deacons KJV' 1 Timothy 3:8-13 King James Version (KJV) 8. Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9. Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 'Women Authority over Church KJV' 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 King James Version (KJV) 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 'Women Authority over Men KJV' 1 Timothy 2:12 King James Version (KJV) 12. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. | ||
| Crusty |
You know; people who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones. | ||
| Aesquire |
I see no need to argue about stuff I don't believe in. I believe that pre-medieval patriarch societies existed, duh. I get how old men run things and write the rules to keep them happy. That hasn't changed, ( see my short rant on age slippage on the Democrat terrorism thread ) but I don't have to obey them, or any particular religious writing if it conflicts with my sense of right & wrong. Feel free to try and brand me a heretic, ( figuratively, actual branding would provoke a physical response ) I don't care. I rather enjoy the rebellion. If you accept that Christ is your savior, and understand the basics, love one another, and the implications to how you should live & think, I don't think it matters that much if you get it from the Davey & Goliath cartoon, a tent preacher, or the Gideon Bible in your hotel room. You want to get the message right, but theological minutiae? If there is salvation, the judgement should come from acts & attitudes ( a jesuit thing ) not confusing Jesus's profession. Didn't he work in Joseph's shop? Did I miss the Holy resume? The biographical stuff is as edited out as Obama's, no school grades, went on a walkabout to find himself, went fishing, Got angry about corruption & gave a few sermons. They skipped the part where he may have worked painting street markings for the Nazareth dept. of Public works. I'm not mocking Jesus or his teachings. I mock that having incomplete information of a 2000+ old fellow that has limited documentation damns you to eternal cold. ( or whatever Dante level ) Especially since imho the important parts of the New Testament aren't apocalyptic rants, but the eye witness accounts of his followers, who, being human, gave conflicting accounts of his time teaching them. And there are more choices than vague hippie Christian  & uptight by the old book intolerant guy.  | ||
| Hootowl |
"but the eye witness accounts of his followers, who, being human, gave conflicting accounts of his time teaching them." Examples? The first four books of the new testament are the first hand accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I've read these accounts several times. I do not recall a disparity. | ||
| Aesquire |
you get the same differences that any group will have of the same events. not lies, just angles of view. My point isn't that the differences matter, it's that they were there, as opposed to visions of a prophet. | ||
| Aesquire |
Full disclosure! I haven't attended an orgy holiday celebration, and can't swear they are available in your area. So you'll need to plan your own. The author of that meme might be confused with Wicca, which doesn't really have orgies like the good old Romans, usually, just Sky Clad ceremonies, which an outsider might get over excited about. Sky Clad ceremonies are also rare, and usually only for small friendly groups. Like any rumored nudity, it gains a lot in the telling. And, this is important to some, any group of nudists will have a range of body shapes from Gal Gadot & Chis Evans ( if you're lucky ) to Rosanne Barr & Michael Moore. ( bet on it ) If looking at pretty naked women is your goal, there are clubs for that. If you want a different religious tradition than sour dirty old men tend to produce, then the more Matriarch oriented nature respecting Wicca might be for you. Or if you subscribe to a warrior code and a nature conscious creed that celebrates the virtues of loyalty, bravery, and charity, with emphasis on protecting those who can't defend themselves, you might like the Norse faiths. In either case, you can expect flack from most other faithful and should understand that Islam pretty much puts you in the "kill the Infidel!" category , without the "tolerance" that allows second class status to Christians. Ymmv. Read all directions before applying. People allergic to alternative faiths should not join alternative faiths. | ||
| Torquehd |
[b]Jesus wasn't a carpenter, that was a lie of the Jews. You don't know that he wasn't a carpenter (the bible doesn't say that He wasn't), so you may be spreading lies yourself. For someone who hates any teaching that doesn't come from the bible, you're quite fond of preaching doctrines that do not come from the bible. | ||
| Hootowl |
Those dirty Jews! Seriously, dude, you need to knock it off. https://www.christianity.com/bible/bible.php?ver=n iv&q=mark+6:3 | ||
| Torquehd |
Dang I guess he really is lying. Yes the KJV says it too. I guess the dirty Jews conspired to twist the KJV translation as well. | ||
| Patches |
Hootowl,- To start with the NIV is one of the most corrupt, apostate of the devil versions out there. You claim to have read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John several times. Yet you have no understanding. Tork,- You are full of yourself. I thought BOTH of you were SMART Enough to understand what you were reading. Guess not. LISTEN real close Jesus Christ was not BORN to be a CARPENTER! Jesus Christ is the only BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD! To start with in Mark 6:2 King James Version (KJV) Jesus was teaching in the synagogue, there is only one religion that has synagogues and that is Judaism. Second in Mark 6:3 King James Version (KJV) The ones that said "Is not this the carpenter" was the Pharisees and Scribes(Jews). Mark 6:2-3 King James Version (KJV) 2. And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? 3. Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. --- You have to be saved to understand Gods Word. John 10:27-28 King James Version (KJV) 27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. | ||
| Hootowl |
“Jesus Christ was not BORN to be a CARPENTER” His purpose was not revealed to him until later in his life. In the interim, he learned a trade from his step father. I thought you were fluent in the bible. Seems like you read the bible but fail to comprehend. | ||
| Hootowl |
I’m perfectly willing to concede that there could have been a translation error. But that error would have occurred when kjv was translated from Greek, because it says the same thing. Is kvj full of lies too, or are you? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+ 6%3A3&version=KJV | ||
| Hootowl |
“ Second in Mark 6:3 King James Version (KJV) The ones that said "Is not this the carpenter" was the Pharisees and Scribes(Jews)” So if a Jew says it, it’s a lie? I’ve had about all the antisemitism I can stand. Knock it off. FYI - Jesus was a Jew. | ||
| Crusty |
When you feed a troll, they won't go away. | ||
| Patches |
Hootowl,- "is not" is a 'idiom' of the time of the King James Translators "idiom" - Every language has its own collection of wise sayings. They offer advice about how to live and also transmit some underlying ideas, principles and values of a given culture / society. These sayings are called "idioms" - or proverbs if they are longer. These combinations of words have (rarely complete sentences) a "figurative" meaning - they basically work with "pictures". This list of commonly used idioms and sayings (in everyday conversational English) can help you to speak English by learning English idiomatic expressions. https://www.smart-words.org/quotes-sayings/idioms- meaning.html https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idiom --- "In the interim, he learned a trade from his step father." In Luke 2:49 Jesus tell Mary & Joseph he is about his Father's Business(Heaven) not Joseph's Carpentry. Luke 2:46-50 King James Version (KJV) 46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. 47. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. 48. And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? 50. And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. --- "I’ve had about all the antisemitism I can stand. Knock it off." I'm not antisemitic I wish the Jews would repent(turn) to Jesus Christ and get saved. Revelation 3:9 King James Version (KJV) 9. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgtCDVwwMx8 --- "FYI - Jesus was a Jew." Jesus never called himself a Jew as far as I can tell. Maybe you could show me the verse. Jesus Christ is the only BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD! | ||
| Patches |
Crusty,- "When you feed a troll, they won't go away." What BOOK, CHAPTER and VERSE is that SIR? | ||
| Crusty |
the book of Elevations. Chapter 42, Verse 974. | ||
| Patches |
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| Hootowl |
“Jesus tell Mary & Joseph he is about his Father's Business(Heaven) not Joseph's Carpentry.” What age was he when he said that? Recall the God revealed his purpose late in his life. Was he a bum up until that time? Your assertion that Jesus was not a carpenter has no basis in the bible, whereas I’ve shown you that there is evidence that he was. “Jesus never called himself a Jew“. Not relevant. His ancestry is clear. His mother was a Jew. |
