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Gregtonn
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 12:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I haven't followed this thread in its entirety however I will leap in at this point.

Let me first say I believe it God.

Also I believe Jesus was a good man. Beyond that I am uncertain. (The true definition of agnostic.)


Thus, the first thing that come to mind when I hear "God says." or "Jesus says." is, "Who is this person who pretends to know the mind of God or Jesus?"

As to atheism?
To me an atheist who says there is no God is a person who claims to know everything there is to be known and is therefore less than an idiot.

G
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Hootowl
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey, as long as I can get within six inches, I’m golden. : )
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Torquehd
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 02:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Also I believe Jesus was a good man. Beyond that I am uncertain

Jesus claimed to be the son of God, and claimed to be able to forgive sins, he claimed to be the only way to God, and he rose from the dead. He was either good or a deceiver (which would make him very, very evil).
Although he never directly said, "I am God", he left breadcrumbs for people to put together (you've got to come to the realization on your own. He's not going to force you to believe). Especially Jews) people who know the old testament.

He was either honest or a liar or just plain crazy. I would say, research and decide. Don't sit on the fence.
Buddha had some good ideas but he was unwittingly evil. Popes have had some good ideas but are unwittingly evil.
There's only one man in history I will say is Good, and will follow as my savior.

the first thing that come to mind when I hear "God says." or "Jesus says.....

I'm not making up what Jesus says. Historians, first-hand eye-witnesses, recorded what He said. No one (in their right mind) would claim to simply know the mind of God. Words were heard and documented.
As certain as "Napolean said", or "Julius Ceaser said", or "Abraham Lincoln said".
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Patches
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 05:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Also I believe Jesus was a good man. Beyond that I am uncertain" +

"Although he never directly said, "I am God","

Jesus said, I am.
John 8:58 King James Version (KJV)
58. Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

God said, I Am That I Am:
Exodus 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
14. And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
---

"Words were heard and documented."

God Inspired the Bible,-

2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17. That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

God kept the Bible for all Generations,-

Psalm 12:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6. The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
8. The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.
---

Don't Add to or Take Away from Gods Word like the Modern Version do,-

Revelation 22:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
---

How do I get Saved,-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzFlJcuI60E
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Blake
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 07:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How do we know what Jesus said? Read what his historical biographers recorded and see for yourself! Each presents his narrative for a specific audience. Mathew for instance was written with the Jews of the day in mind.

I'm not sure why some elevate the KJV over other more recent good faith translations. It can be very difficult to follow the KJV as the English language has changed significantly in the past 500 years.

The original transcripts were written in ancient Hebrew and Greek. Some translations aim for accuracy in word by word literal meaning, while others aim for accuracy in intended message. Having both is valuable. Having many all available and with the original Greek (New Testament) or Hebrew (Torah & Old Testament) and scholarly explanations is truly a Godsend.

See https://biblehub.com/john/1.htm for a parallel presentation of different popular translations. You can choose others as well.

See https://biblehub.com/parallel/john/1-1.htm for the word by word translation (Greek or Hebrew as applicable) along with the verse as rendered in most common translations.

See https://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/1-1.htm for a serious collection of major scholarly commentaries and exposition.

I'd say that limiting yourself to only the KJV seems unwise and unhelpful to earnest study of the text aiming to discern the true meaning(s) of it.

How to know what is true?

“If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” — Christ Jesus (John 8:31-32, ESV)

https://biblehub.com/john/8.htm

Seek truth. Read Christ's Gospel. Some folks wrote it down. It's a compelling short story. There are four different recountings of it, each with its own intended audience. As is true for any written record, they may not be well-understood absent knowledge of the societal and cultural context of the time and place in/aboutwhich they were written. First century Judea under Roman occupation was not the same as secular San Francisco, California, or Kilgore, Texas, or even modern Jerusalem.

But the message of Christ is timeless. Everytime I read it, it's depth of meaning increases.
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Pwnzor
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 07:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Everytime I read it, it's depth of meaning increases

Truth.
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Blake
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 07:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Patches:

Salvation comes through repentance AND trust in Christ. Lots of false conversions happen by way of the type of evangelizing that video presents. The continuance of unrepentant sin proves a lack of rebirth in the spirit. No unrepentant sinner is saved.

"If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” — Christ Jesus (John 8:31-32, ESV)
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Patches
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 08:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Modern Versions takes out the Only Begotten.
What Day Was Jesus Begotten?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z-iQLXNkKc


This video explains the differance between KJV and Modern Versions.
New World Order Bible Versions Full Movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SQjfB-oFw
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Pwnzor
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Patches, are you trying to keep this world? Do you believe it belongs to us?

Does this physical realm matter at all?

Ask yourself.

Matthew 6:19-21

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
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Patches
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 08:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Salvation comes through repentance AND trust in Christ."

"repentance" Means to turn from Sin(stop sinning), you live in the Flesh you cannot stop sinning. Repent means to turn. Was God sinning in Genesis 6:6

Genesis 6:6 King James Version (KJV)
6. And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Salvation is by Faith alone
Ephesians 2:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Deuteronomy 6:4 King James Version (KJV)
4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
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Patches
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 08:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Patches, are you trying to keep this world? Do you believe it belongs to us?"-

NO,-You do not belong to you. ALL belongs to God who Made It.

I have strong desire to go on to be with the Lord in Heaven.
Philippians 1:23 King James Version (KJV)
23. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 10:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Over on the political thread an assertion was made that version "KJV" of the product labeled Bible, is the One True brand name and some other is the spawn of Satan.

I firmly believe Coke is better tasting than Pepsi, but taste is individual and I don't claim Pepsi is made by horrible monsters.

It might be. Pepsi clear? Obviously influenced by a Lovecraftian spirit! OTOH New Coke is obviously a plot by folk Lucifer would eject from his realm in fury.

Feel free to disagree on the sofa pop and literary fronts.

I simply don't buy the myth that a Divine hand prevented translation errors in a vanity project.

Quoting from a product that it's the best is like a Fruit Loops box insisting it is the only good cereal of it's niche. Could be, but there's no reason to think so just because it says so.

I'm not saying you are wrong to believe in the Bible. Or prefer, for whatever reason, a specific brand. I'm just unlikely to be convinced that your specific brand is The Only Truth because some human tells me.

I'm fact, if the current Pope endorses a product, I'm likely to assume he's a lying shill for a malevolent human group, and not buy it.

Absent an endorsement carved in unchanging letters on a continent or mountain...
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 11:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Milk is good for a baby. When you start looking for meat there are a lot of different versions. The KJV while written in the kings english is a good starting point. I read the NIV through my first year and have read the KJV every time after. As I started studying I found some versions altered important items like the blood and who Jesus daddy was. With the KJV I could use a concordance. I had more than one. One Christmas my family gave me a gift like no other. I sat at a drafting table for 4 days with a large family bible and que cards. The cards said sandwich, water, kleenex, and paper. I was allowed to read un-hindered and aided by those around me. I read straight through for 12 hours each day. All the jumbled feeling of the bible straightened out. If you ever get the opportunity, I highly recommend it.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I find Biblehub's easy comparison between translations a nice resource. I just recently found it, and thanks for posting the links.
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Patches
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 11:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word of God is Jesus Christ. The Word of God is the Bible. If the Word is Corrupt you do not have the Living God. You do not have Jesus Christ, ""you do not have Salvation"". This is why the Bible is so Important. I Believe King James Version to be The True Word of God. (In English)
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Torquehd
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

From the other thread

""English Revised Version (which was the KJV put into modern 19th century lingo).""
ERV is what Blasphemy is.


How is man saved? Believing in Jesus Christ. That's it.
KJV may be best for study (and I'm on the band-wagon of guys who believe it's the best version period), but millions of folks have gotten saved using other versions. Folks have even been saved using the Catholic bible or the Book of Mormon (How Heretical!)
I don't care if you read a children's bible that's more pictures than words. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God, no matter what language. I go back to my earlier question - what are folks who don't speak English supposed to read? Can they have the word translated into their own language? Blasphemy! How dare they worship Jesus in their own devil tongue!
Jesus Christ. Perfect, crucified, risen, coming back again. If we agree on that, why argue about anything else?
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Tootal
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 03:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I just did a little research since I prefer reading "The Living Bible". It was translated from the original Hebrew and Greek and not translated from the KJV. Here's some good information: https://www.biblica.com/resources/bible-faqs/in-wh at-language-was-the-bible-first-written/

They claim that today some 5000 hand-copied documents exist of all or part of the Bible, and they agree in 98% of the text! No other ancient writing has this amount of underlying support with such amazing agreement as to the text.
The Bible is in 2300 different languages too. Pretty amazing! So it looks like no matter what translation you have it's pretty accurate.
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My personal story excerpt: I read a couple of Hal Lindsey's books and prayed at the end of each one. Circumstances and situations started changing around me. People kept coming up to me and talking about God. I read Egermeier's Bible Storybook and just knew I needed to be baptized. So, I started asking people if I could be baptized at their churches. One of the guys acted appalled at the thought of the long haired hippy dude coming to church with him. Another seamed great to me. He hadn't gave up anything to be a christian and I thought we could get high after church together if I went to his church. Then there was this apostolic pentecostal I was forced to come across. He was on a three day fast praying that God would send him someone to lead into a relationship with Jesus. I came across him as he was reading Isaiah. The story is even more involved but has a happy ending. The place I worked had about 1200 employees and they knew me. Where I worked was visible to everyone coming into the plant and there was no question that I wasn't right. I had collected enough red and blue paint to paint the whole area around me purple. The plant got to see a transformation. I became a Sunday school teacher, got to preach, was asked to officiate a funeral, lead a bible study at work and even had an office made available for it. People would come up and make prayer requests and ask me to go talk to their relatives. I saw revivals and saw people turn down God and die. The tales seamed unreal as I lived through them. This 6'6"+ man came up to me one night and asked."R.D., Do you have a word from God for me?" I was praying an hour or 2 a day at the time. What I had for him was amazing. I looked up at this huge man and said," NO!, If you want a word from God, YOU need to get back up under that Man Of God you walked out on, and he will give you a word!" I didn't know the guy from Adam but had been impressed in prayer with the answer for him. He got off work and went to church that morning, apologized to his pastor and prayed back through. That year he and 3 other brethren on the East side of Indianapolis went to Fort Benjamin Harrison and was given a gymnasium to start a youth program. They had 300 kids in it by the end of the year. I've been blessed to witness a lot.
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Patches
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jesus is the true "Morning Star". Isaiah 14:12 The ERV takes out the name "Lucifer, son of the morning" and changes doctrine. It makes Jesus look like the devil. Another thing it does it changes "Hell"(a Place of Torment)wailing and gnashing of teeth in Isaiah 14:15 to Sheol(the grave) not as bad. There are more changes. God Commanded do not Change my Word.

Revelation 22:18- 19 King James Version (KJV)
18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Jesus the true "Morning Star".
Revelation 22:16 King James Version (KJV)
16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

---

Isaiah 14:12-15 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
12. You were like the morning star, but you have fallen from the sky. In the past, all the nations on earth bowed down before you, but now you have been cut down.
13. You always told yourself, “I will go to the skies above. I will put my throne above God’s stars. I will sit on Zaphon,[a] the holy mountain where the gods meet.
14. I will go up to the altar above the tops of the clouds. I will be like God Most High.”
15. But that did not happen. You were brought down to the deep pit—Sheol, the place of death.
---

Isaiah 14:12-15 King James Version (KJV)
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
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Patches
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 03:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hal Lindsey's books not good. Man can not Save you.

Matthew 15:9 King James Version (KJV)
9. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 04:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Patches, Did you quit reading at the mention of the great satan Lindsey?
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Patches
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 05:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

yes sir,- sorry bout that. I do apologize.
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Ourdee
Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2019 - 05:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LOL
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Blake
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2019 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Bible is foolishness to non-believers.

See https://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/2-14.htm

Believers can thoughtfully debate which English modern translation of a particular portion is most accurate to the intended meaning of the original ancient Hebrew or Greek penned by the authors.

https://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/14-12.htm

Which Hebrew version is most accurate?...

https://biblehub.com/texts/isaiah/14-12.htm

"Sheol" is the English transliteration of the ancient Hebrew, and Hell is an English word for "Sheol" in the ancient Hebrew text. What the ancient Hebrews understood "Sheol" to mean would then be the key question.

https://biblehub.com/parallel/isaiah/14-15.htm

Beware invocations of Satan as a means to argue against other brothers in Christ. That is neither gentle nor loving. If we cannot reason with knowledge and understanding, then we are just placing our faith in the ideas of other men. That's what the temple authorities did who convicted Christ Jesus. See the problem with that?

Concerning truth, return always to what Christ Himself told us:

English Standard Version
“If you abide in my word,
you are truly my disciples,
and you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.”

(John 8:31-32 ESV)


King James Version
If ye continue in my word,
then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you free.

(John 8:31-32 KJV)


English Revised Version
If ye abide in my word,
then are ye truly my disciples;
and ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you free.

(John 8:31-32 ERV)


New American Standard Bible
“If you continue in My word,
then you are truly disciples of Mine;
and you will know the truth,
and the truth will make you free.”

(John 8:31-32 NAS)


New International Version
“If you hold to my teaching,
you are really my disciples.
Then you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.”

(John 8:31-32 NIV)


Young's Literal Translation
‘If ye may remain in my word,
truly my disciples ye are,
and ye shall know the truth,
and the truth shall make you free.’

(John 8:31-32 YLT)


New Living Translation
“You are truly my disciples
if you remain faithful to my teachings.
And you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.”

(John 8:31-32 NLT)


Holman Christian Standard Bible
“If you continue in My word,
you really are My disciples.
You will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free.”

(John 8:31-32 HCS)



I think the word "abide" as defined below best captures the intended meaning.

abide (verb): continually accept and act in accordance with

Which in turn means one must sincerely and continually hear/read and understand Christ's Word.
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Pwnzor
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2019 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2019 - 03:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There is an opinion the Greek Orthodox rituals are closest to the ones practiced by the early Church, back when there was just one. Don't know if they are still using the original Attic Greek translation from Aramaic.

Even so, that's ritual from about 4-5 centuries Anno Domini.

( The "common era" dating is a blatant attempt to disconnect time from the past. Bite me. If you erase history you can't learn from it. Those frantic to hide things like the fact that Europe and it's colonies use dates from Rome, are also trying to hide sins their favorite heroes committed. Since that's more murder in the 20th century alone than died in war, I consider that evil. )

And that time period was one of violent disagreement about the nature of the trinity, which is a bit weird to us today, but then was cause for wars and burning at the stake. Unfortunately, secular politics was heavily involved. Who supported the Emperor & his desire to keep the support of the rich Athenians meant who got persecuted was as much trading favors as for religious orthodoxy. Way too complex & hard to explain on a rationally short post. ( thank Baal! I doubt I understand it very well ; ) ) I'm curious how 23rd century history books cover the early 21st. "No, really, they tore down the statues of their Civil War. No, it was the descendants of the losing side. They wanted to pretend they never had those policies. Yes, they still did, but tried to lie about it. No, that was just before the Plague..."

Feel free to take comfort, dismay, amusement, ( your choice ) from the fact that people get seriously worked up over Star Wars too. Personally don't think the Jedi system has impact on my soul, but that some folk get so upset over it does offer some perspective.
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Patches
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2019 - 04:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"Beware invocations of Satan as a means to argue against other brothers in Christ"

Blake, Modern Translations Invocate Satan "AS" Christ.

Bible Verses Removed
http://www.av1611.org/biblevs.html
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Torquehd
Posted on Monday, December 30, 2019 - 06:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

First of all, that's a 1611 website - I doubt you read the 1611 KJV as you haven't mentioned it.

Secondly, the very first verse that says was taken out of the NIV, wasn't, so I'm not going to reserach any further.

I like the KJV best, I researched versions years ago, but I don't shove it down other people's throats, because it's not an issue. Pick your battles. A lot of the "issues" in the new bible versions are just commentators saying things like, "Modern translations invocate Satan "AS" Christ". And then when they cite the offending verse, you have to twist it to make it say that Satan is Jesus. It does not say, "Satan is Christ". They change the meaning of the word of God. Which is what they claim to be hating about other versions.
What would you call the sun, when it crests the horizon in the morning? It's a morning star. That doesn't make it Jesus.
There's also a weapon called the morningstar. Is it therefore Jesus?
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 - 12:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The Morning Star is Venus. Morningstars ( The weapon ) are fun.

It would not surprise me that some medieval tract calls Jesus the Morning Star. Allusions were the way to show education. Things weren't just red, they were as red as the blood of Christ. Lovely, flowery prose was the style.
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Torquehd
Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 - 01:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've never understood morningstars. As a teenager, I fell in love with single handed(English/George Silver) and hand-and-a-half/two-handed swords (Talhofer - German/Austrian style). To me, that became my small world of Medieval combat. I studied texts, ancient and modern, and found a friend to practice with.

Then, almost a decade ago, I took a couple of lessons with a local group of SCA nerds. I knew more about single and two-handed swords, but they knew more about adding a shield into the mix. Which changes, Everything. One guy had a shield and a flail. He beat my hamstrings to bruises.
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