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Rick_a
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 04:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

You have not shot 40mmHE.



I've actually fired plenty of HE and HEDP. Good luck taking your grenade launcher with you.
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Pwnzor
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 05:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Modified Ruger LCP with Underwood Xtreme ammo gets the job done. They can't see it until it's too late, and if they manage to crawl away there will be a definite blood trail from exit wounds.

The Sweet Pea trigger, stainless guide rod, stainless take down and retention pins make it a new animal altogether. I've got less than $600 invested in both of these combined. Helluva bang for my buck, I say.





24.25 inches of gel AFTER penetrating 22 gauge sheet metal. Watch the video to get the whole story. Xtreme Penetrator = 1100fps while Xtreme Defender = 1300 fps.







(Message edited by pwnzor on September 08, 2019)
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Ourdee
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've actually fired plenty of HE and HEDP. Good luck taking your grenade launcher with you. Then the you have not.... was probably not for you. You know there are magic bullets. I would not want to be carrying the 40mm.
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Rick_a
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 09:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

There's a box of Guard Dog in 40S&W here, locally. While it's an ideal round for home defense, it's a bit too pricey to be of practical use for me.
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Rick_a
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 09:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

To use a 40mm grenade launcher effectively, whether shoulder fired or crew served...it still has to be aimed accurately. There is a narrow kill radius and the casualty radius isn't particularly impressive. The effect on hard targets requires a direct hit. Not a magic bullet.
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 01:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/09/beto -orourke-says-people-will-comply-surrender-ar-15s- under-his-ban/

Nope.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 01:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

He added, I have yet to meet an owner of an AR-15 who thinks its OK that we have these kind of mass killings in this country.

And those are the people who DON'T kill people with their ARs.

Yet, somehow, he made the mental leap from that statement to "so I'll give my gun to you, to keep other people from using THEIR guns to kill folks".

People will surrender them voluntarily, sure.

Just like illegals show up for their hearings.

Which he and his kind ALSO believe happens, by the way.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well..sometimes the justice system actually WORKS.

Even here in the PRM.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/howard/cng-h o-woodbine-shooting-case-0904-20190903-oquuirlwyrb frppwksonnzmdgq-story.html
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Oldog
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 05:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

so O pork says he will ban the ar-15 style rifle, and confiscate them if elected.

molon labe
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Ducbsa
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 08:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

That reporter sure is grudging about it being self-defense. Good God,what does it take to be justified?
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well...it *is* the PRM (Peoples Republic of Maryland). Not far from the liberally-run "mecca" of Baltimore. And as an extension of open borders...you should do the same at your own home. Throw open the door to a drunk-ass stranger, at 1 am, when they start pounding on your door, yelling, and finally force their way in.

It's the (liberal) American Way, don'tcha know.

If anyone, they should come down (sorry to say) on the LEOs who "drove by" but failed to do anything about the drunkard. He should have been cuffed and thrown in the drunk tank, before he had a chance to force his way through a locked door and get himself shot.

Wait.

Check that.

Full blame lies on the drunkard. Ya just don't go breakin' down a door at 1am. Period. If you do...well....
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Pwnzor
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah... so the homeowner now has to live with the fact that he ended the life of some idiot drunkard.

It's not something I ever want to experience... no matter how justified it might be.

This story further steels my resolve to never hesitate in a situation like this. Once that threshold has been breached, it's over. One life will end, and the one who remains alive will never be the same.

I'll take the latter over the former every time.
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Rick_a
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 09:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

He added, I have yet to meet an owner of an AR-15 who thinks its OK that we have these kind of mass killings in this country.



Well, sure...but what's that got to do with the gun?

The participation rate for gun registration schemes is very low in this country. I imagine the rate for a voluntary turn in would be less still.
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

In New York it was.... Tiny. The local rights organizations had to sue to get the FOIA data from the State Police, who track these things, and are the Primary Enforcers for the Governor.

( Feel free to read those last five words as ominous. )

Very few people turned in their Assault Scary Things. Out of millions assumed to exist. ( yes, millions )

Many, like me, sold or gave them away to just avoid any conflicts. I was just early, long before the Safe Act, since I knew Cuomo would violate my rights, and upcoming surgery had me hyper award of mortality. I can't even take Cassandra credit, since everyone else knew Cuomo was going to violate his oath, our rights, and probably God's will.


But everyone I know who had an AK or AR ( that has discussed the subject with me since ) sold or gave away their problematic items before the ban/registration. I don't know anyone who registered an Assault Scary Thing.

That doesn't mean I don't have any friends that complied, the subject just didn't come up. ; )

And there are few guys at the range with them since plinking with an AK seems, anecdotally, ( rumors ) to inspire a circus performance when a State LEO sees one.

I don't personally know of any illegitimate confiscation of legally owned & registered guns, ( rumors, very low confidence ) But I have seen borderline harassment & the local shop told me to avoid "teaser" guns like the pump action AR variant that was a magazine Cover story last year?. I was inquiring about building a stone legal side handle upper manually operated bolt action plinker, and they strongly recommended against it, refusing to touch the project in any way.

They said ( rumor, medium high confidence ) that if caught with a "teaser" or "middle finger" gun by the State authorities, policy was to confiscate and hold for confirmation of legal status. Someday. When they got around to it. Maybe. ( With implications of What gun? But not confirmed. To be clear. )

I don't know what the compliance rate would be elsewhere. And I live far from the Big Apple, in farm country. ( But a big city county ) So perhaps NY overall is a typical test case.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2019 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It's not something I ever want to experience... no matter how justified it might be.

I agree 1000%.

But like you also said - I'd much prefer to be the one standing after it all.

I would rather be prepared every day and have it all for naught...instead of not being prepared that *one* time, and not walking away from it as a result.

I don't want to have to use it.

But as little as I want to use it...I want to die even less. And I suspect the gentleman in the house, with his wife and family, felt the same way at 1:30AM with a half-naked stranger pounding on his door and screaming at him, as he forced his way into the home.
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Rick_a
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 06:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The arbitrary rules for the fanciful "assault weapon" of leftist lore are always nonsensical. My ban era gun now wears a threaded barrel, has a bayonet lug purely for decoration, and I've always had proper 30rd magazines for it. What it does differently is nothing. Ultimately they want to creep towards a semi auto ban, as European nations represent their anti gun utopia. Some of them aren't even hiding it anymore.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 07:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Some of them?? They're ALL talking about buybacks and confiscations. Hopefully that'll be a tipping point for liberal gun owners. I know quite a few who own and carry because of past traumae - rape, angry divorces, robberies/muggings. They believe in their guns, but are otherwise politically liberal. Hopefully this radical bent from the left will sway thise people and others like them, to vote Right and keep the radicals out of office.

I suspect we're about to see a 3rd party. Conservatives (Republicans); Liberals (the new Moderates, once people realize how truly crazy this batch of Dems has become); and the full-on socialists of the Democrat party.
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Ourdee
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

COURT, I've had to ask a Mod. to remove my stuff because I was too slow in repenting. I do want to see what you posted though.

(Message edited by ourdee on September 10, 2019)
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Ourdee
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think I would like to trade my AR pistol for an FN57. Please talk me off the fence or push me with facts.
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Bandm
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would also like to trade an AR pistol for a Five-Seven.

From FN

The 5.7x28mm ammunition has been designed to bridge the gap between the 9mm ammunition and the 5.56 x 45mm. Designed to operate in the FN Five-Seven handgun and the PS90 semiauto carbine. The 9mm FMJ round will not penetrate well and the 5.56mm (.223 Rem.) rifle ammunition creates over-penetration concerns.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The 5.7 FN round. was meant to be used in Personal Defence Weapons, PDWs, by non combatant NATO personnel who didn't need a big rifle as an infantry soldier. Cooks, clerks, truck drivers. The same mission as the M1 Carbine from WW2. Based on the observation that most people can't hit anything with a pistol, and ( especially European ) militaries don't want to spend time & money to train with hand guns.

Because the Primary enemy was assumed to be armored Soviet troops and paratroopers dropped behind NATO lines, armor penetration was a prime factor in the design.

Since U.S. Citizens aren't "allowed" to have armor piercing rounds, and our typical predators aren't armored, that capability is...moot.

So it's a soft shooting, and lower powered then 5.56 NATO cartridge that has poor performance with FMJ bullets, and we have little field experience with modern, anti personnel, polymer tipped defensive ammo.

Ammo is also expensive, although reloading is cheap, using little powder.

And my suggestion is to hold a Five-Seven pistol before purchasing, to see if the longer than 9 mm Parabellum cartridge/magazine/grip is comfortable in YOUR hand.

So Five-Seven vs. an AR pistol?

More expensive ammo, lower performance, but much easier to carry. And cool. That counts. But not propaganda black rifle racism scary for the public, so ironically, less hassle to own.

Let us know how you like it.
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Ourdee
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Let us know how you like it. LOL
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 01:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I do dispute the notion that a 9mm FMJ doesn't penetrate well. It over penetrates on deer sized game. And people not wearing body armor. The 5.56 NATO, in civilian legal polymer tip hollow points actually has less over penetration issues than 9mm FMJ.

IF you're concerned with interior house walls? Then go watch the box-o-truth videos. The simple truth is anything adequate for self defense is going through a wall in a house.

If your concern is defeating body armor? Then you live in a very different environment than I do, and IF you can buy armor penetrating ammo, then your effectiveness rating is, in order, 5.56-5.7-9mm. And for over penetration you need .50 BMG.
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Akbuell
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 02:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Re reloading for the FN57:

Might want to do some research. I seem to remember reading that the cartridge case has some special treatment from the factory to ease reliable feeding. I also seem to remember reading that the cartridge is 'finiky' about powder loads. Load X is not accurate and does not feed well; add .1 or .2 more grains of powder and an overpressure situation results.

Would do to answer that question as part of the overall decision making process. Especially if my memory is inaccurate.

Hope this helps, Dave
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Ourdee
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And on to fun stuff. Anyone else use wax bullets with shotgun primers as a load?
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Pwnzor
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't want to have to use it.

If I can use my feet to put distance between me and the threat, I will.

The gun is the last resort of all last resorts.
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Thumper74
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 07:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They DO make an AR57, that uses P90 mags. You could make that in a short, say 6 inch barrel, with a arm brace. It would be compact, high capacity, etc but not very concealable....
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Ourdee
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 09:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'd go 11.5" on the AR-57, but I don't see any plus for it over my current AR pistol.
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Ratbuell
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 10:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If I can use my feet to put distance between me and the threat, I will.

Agreed.

But, my conundrum is...I shepherd my concerts. Do I get out safely, without protecting my audience and performers? What would haunt me more - engaging and ending the threat, and actively ending another life? Or escaping to safety and hearing about all the others who didn't, when I could have potentially done something (or at least tried)?

I did a site survey today, for a gig I have in a couple weeks. Local college's Homecoming weekend, and they booked us to headline the weekend on that Saturday night. Kids. Alumnae. Families. Outdoor gig, open campus. Not only do I engineer my gig...but my situational awareness is always turned up to eleven. Schools, churches, nightclubs (although Walmart is coming up fast for a podium spot, these days).

I'm not a LEO. I'm not obligated. Hell, in some states, I'm not ALLOWED. Only 'the moment' will tell...and I hope I never learn the answer.

But with today's f'd up world...I'll be damned if I'll be caught unprepared.
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Zac4mac
Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 01:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Do I get out safely, without protecting my audience and performers? What would haunt me more - engaging and ending the threat, and actively ending another life? Or escaping to safety and hearing about all the others who didn't, when I could have potentially done something (or at least tried)?

Sheepdog definition, protect the sheep at all cost.
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