| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
Got tires mounted and balanced today at a local multi-brand powersport dealer. Got out to parking lot and looked to see if they put the balancing dot next to the valve stem (no balancing dots on these Dunlops Q3s--first time ever I have not seen balancing dots on a tire. Have the stopped this practice?) However, I also noticed no wheel weights on either wheel. I figured they didn't balance the tires. Go back into the service area and ask if they had been balanced. I am told they were balanced and both zeroed out and didn't need weights. I told them that has never ever happened before. They assured me it was correct and since it was within the realm of possibility, I relented and went on my way. Put them on my static balancer at home and the front checked out as balanced. The rear was obviously not balanced and needed 3/4 of an ounce of weight. This was either a mistake or intentionally cutting corners. Either is not excusable IMHO. THe odds of a rear wheel balancing perfectly is nil and the tech should know this. Anyhow, anyone ever work in a busy service shop and called wheels balanced say if they needed less than an ounce of weights? I am calling these incompetent and/or lying pricks in the morning. | ||
| Crusty |
How much did they charge you to mount & balance both tires? Divide that number into the price of a NoMar tire changer and you'll never have to depend on them screwing up again. I bought my NoMar in 2007 and it has paid for itself and continues to save me money. And, when I do a tire change, I know it's done right! | ||
| Ourdee |
I completely trust my tire change guy. Hi, Crusty,  . He uses a NoMar. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I think you need to breathe, and pick your battles. Let them know what you found - diplomatically! - and if it really bothers you, just find another shop to use, or as mentioned above...do it yourself. | ||
| Screamer |
After arguing with a well-known Buell dealership that had placed wheel weights on the wrong side of a front XB wheel (the non-disc side), - and later having a reputable performance shop put a gouge in one of a new pair of (Tubeframe) Castalloy wheels - I bought a No-Mar tire changer. The first few years I had it, I’d replace 3-5 pairs a year (between my sons and I). Now it’s only a couple of pairs a year - but still the No-Mar is well worth owning. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I think this is what way too many people do and that's why these jerks skate by. Ain't gonna happen. I paid for a service. What they should have done is put them on the balancer again instead of insisting I was wrong just to get me out of their way. This is the same place that put the dot opposite the valve stem a few changes ago and it took about a dozen wheel weights, then looked at me like I was the jerk for insisting they make it right instead of just taking it like most people...so the incompetentance has a precedent. BTW, after spinning the dot to the valve stem the wheel weights were reduced to two. I don't have the garage space or the desire to buy a Nomar changer...I am happy spend the $21 per tire for 'professionals' to do this service for me...and that term is used very loosely. It's a sad commentary when a simple change/balance cannot be done competently. Seriously. (Message edited by fresnobuell on June 21, 2019) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Can anyone who handles motorcycle tires comment on the balancing dot not being present? Are tire manufacturers not doing this anymore? Tires in question are Dunlop Q3s with a manufacture date of late 2017. | ||
| Ratbuell |
This is the same place Sounds like more than one party is at fault here then...you can argue with most businesses till you're blue in the face, but most only listen once the money stops coming in. | ||
| Tootal |
Today it seems the only thing required to make you a professional is that you're getting paid!! I always used the local Yamaha shop since I knew the owners and the mechanics. They always did a great job. Since your shop has done shoddy work twice I think it's time to move on. Vote with your pocketbook. | ||
| Aesquire |
Local car tire shop mounted the tires ( cheapest Chinese ) that came with my used minivan after removing studded snows. Stacked balance weights so high they hit the brake caliper. Thump thump thump increasing with rpm. When I brought it back they didn't understand why that was wrong. No longer a customer after decades. New management, apparently. New techs. I won't advertise their name on the intraweb, to avoid libel accusations. But I do "It ain't slander if it's true" verbally abuse them deservedly. They are a local multi city chain, not a national one. | ||
| Cupcake_mike |
I've found that sometimes the dot goes opposite the valve steem, sometimes the same side as the valve stem. I've noticed a few times over the last couple years that the dot was missing, other times it was there....sometimes the dot even get washed off depending on the lube used. Been doing my own tires for the last 10 years....with spoons, on my hands and knees, typically 3-5 a season. | ||
| Thumper74 |
FWIW, I've never had a sportbike tire take more than 0.5 oz to balance. Most are 0.25 oz. Chances are if they match mounted them, they are pretty close as is. In cars and bikes, I have noticed that the cheaper the tire, the more inconsistent they are and more weight they take. New BfGs in 265/70r17 (almost a 32") took less than 0.75 oz per wheel to balance. I spun them more than once to make sure I wasn't crazy. | ||
| Tootal |
The last set of PR4's I put on the front didn't require any weights. The rear did a little. I'm thinking now that the shop you used probably spin balanced them. These machines aren't perfect and have a certain tolerance. In other words they can be off a little but not enough that you would notice. Static balancing can give you a different reading than spin balancing. I'm not making excuses for these guys, just saying you can get different results. When spinning you can get "rocking couple" that you don't get when doing static. I used to balance all kinds of impellers and squirrel cage fans. The general rule is if it's larger in diameter than it is wide then balance in a single plane. However, I found you can still have rocking couple, (side to side), imbalance which is still harder on bearings so I balanced in two planes and it was smoother. | ||
| Crusty |
That makes sense to me. When I (static) balance a wheel, I try to put half the weight on one side of the rim and half on the other. Back in 2007, I put a new tire on my Uly. It took 140 grams of weight to get it balanced. That was the last time I bought a tire from that manufacturer. It wasn't a cheap tire, either. | ||
| Tootal |
OK, I lied. I was just in the garage and noticed weights on the front wheel so I got it backwards. No weights on the rear wheel. I know, I was shocked too. | ||
| Torquehd |
Not all tires have balance dots. And IMHO, unless the tire is janky, balance dots don't make that much of a difference. Instead of assuming that they're a-holes and they cheated you on purpose and they're just out to get you, I would politely stick with facts when I talked to the shop. I've also learned that things like that are usually the fault of a person, not a company. Sometimes companies have bad policies, but often times humans forget or overlook things. I also agree with whoever posted above, if you continue to get bad service there, stop going there. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I know their machines have a tolerance of less than 3/4 of an ounce, as tires have come out of the shop with a single 1/4 weight. It was interesting however that the light spot at the top matched up perfectly with a big yellow grease pen line they drew across the tire. I was trying to figure out what the purpose of this line was for? Again, I didn't see a balancing dot that coincided with the line (unless they washed off the dot.) The line was very helpful when I was static balancing it however. Much easier to keep track of a big yellow line after a six pack of beers in a 100 degree garage. (Message edited by fresnobuell on June 22, 2019) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Similar to when this shop put the dot opposite the valve stem during a tire swap a couple years ago. | ||
| Steveford |
I've never seen a balance dot on a Michelin and I have had Michelin tires that required no weight to balance. I don't know beans about Dunlop, though. | ||
| Willmrx |
My tire story, I had a local "fix all brands" shop, put a tire on my rear wheel. The first two times were fine, the third time they put the tire on backwards and had to reverse it. The fourth and final time, I left the wheel and came back after eating lunch, and to my surprise the mechanic was reinstalling the rear drive pulley. I asked him why he had to remove the pulley, he said it would not fit in the tire machine, I said that one, as I pointed at the only tire machine they had, He said yes! So I pointed over to the other mechanic there and said, he never had to remove the rear pulley the other times I had it changed? plus the factory recommends that you do not reuse pulley bolts so I replaced them with new ones.(And yes on the OCD). BTW I now change and balance my own tires now. | ||
| Willmrx |
Side note, I just got down to my wear bars on the new Q3+ at just over 2000 miles. No difference from my previous Q3s averages. I just put on a set of Metzer Karoon 3 on my XR650l last Friday night, after a little over 800 miles on them, the rear is already on the wear bars! Not a single burnout, no hard rear braking just hard acceleration. At this point, I am going to go broke, feeding my bikes tires. (Message edited by willmrx on June 23, 2019) (Message edited by willmrx on June 23, 2019) | ||
| Cupcake_mike |
Willmrx...thats nuts, I get 7-9k out of Q3s on the rear; I weigh 275 lbs and dont ride nicely. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I get about 3,000 MAX (probably) less out of a Q3 rear and that's down to the cords. That pulley removal story is awful. I would have made the pay for the new bolts. If I stick with this shop, I will most likely have them mount the tires only. I don't mind balancing them and I know they are done correctly. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Fresno Compared to your frustration a NoMar would seem to be a no-brainer | ||
| Two_seasons |
By the way, my Magna-Matic mower blade sharpener has a seven ball-bearing balancer mounted on the stand. Much less vibration on the mower  | ||
| Tootal |
As far as replacing the pulley bolts it's really not needed. The reason the books says that is because the new bolts will have loctite on them. If you clean your old bolts, I use a wire wheel, and use loctite they will work fine. Remember, your screwing into aluminum. The aluminum is going to fail before any steel bolt. The company just wants to make sure there's fresh loctite on there to cover their back sides. | ||
| Shoggin |
I've never been happy with anyone else work. If I'm unhappy with my own work, I'm ok with who's responsible! I started using balancing beads 5-6 years ago even though there are strong opinions against them on the interwebs  Since I understand centrifugal force, and made sure to get the right product they have worked very well for everything from TKC-80's and on-off road, to track days on Q3+'s! The rear Q3+'s last about 3K (200lbs riding to the sidewall, but no burn-out shenanigans). I have no idea how you get to 7-9!! I use spoons to swap them but would MUCH prefer a No-Mar. I got tired (PUUUNNNN) of shops chipping the paint and swearing 'it was there bro'. Re-read your own OP, is it still worth $41/each for this angst? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I don't want to devote the garage space to the tire changer, otherwise I would consider it. Also, I am not going thru tires like I did 5 or 10 years ago, so it doesn't make as much sense financially. One of my main riding buddies moved about an hour away so I don't see him much on a motorcycle anymore and my other buddy moved into his old lady's house so I don't ride nearly as much with him anymore...so it's basically just me now and we are talking one set a year. | ||
| Shoggin |
Tire spoons ($8) don't take up much garage space. even just one set of tire changes a year that pisses you off this much.. is one too many. Sorry you're bummed, go for a ride and see if you actually need a balance? Either way, you're riding, and thats always a good thing  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I have a static balancer back from when another buddy owned a repair shop. He would change our tires on his tire changer and we would static balance them on jack stands. His payment was Bud Light, so we were all happy. Buddy closed his shop, sold his equipment and we started to goto the powersports dealer in question for tire changes. Soooo....I used the static balancer to determine the dealer did not balance the rear tire properly (if at all as there were no wheel weight) and I also proceded to balance the rear with 3/4 ounce of weight. I forgot how a new set of rubber feels....bike wants to turn again! | ||
| Greg_e |
I will mention that the Harbor Freight motorcycle tire machine has it's good and bad points... It can be terribly frustrating sometimes, even with the NoMar bar and lots of goop. I call it the rim wrecker. Advantage is that it doesn't take up too much room when packed away. Disadvantage is that you really want to bolt it to the floor. I have mine on a big wooden table top and often the forces go against standing on the wood to keep it from moving. Even the little 12 inch tires on my KAYO were somewhat difficult, but the scooter tires on my brother's scooter were the worst. Need to buy a good balancer, had a Harbor Freight one, but it rusted and not worth fixing it. The axle was bent and I had to move the towers so that I could use the bike's axle which was a pin. Motion Pro has a single sided balance/truing stand that I like the looks of, but they didn't answer my question when I asked if it would handle a 12mm bearing on my little bikes. Not going to risk $100 on something that doesn't work on all of my toys. They state 15mm but that may be the size of the cones. I bought some spoons for the next set, but slow moving on them because I still don't feel I can ride after the collision with the drunk (he confessed, so now I can call him a drunk). Actually thinking about selling everything because I don't think my balance will ever be good again, and a 900+ pound Harley on your leg is not a good day. Haven't even had my little Z125 out, every time I start thinking of testing it, I start to feel bad again ad it usually lasts for days. Still having some double vision issues too, even after therapy. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
We had the Harbor Freight changer at the very start. It needs to bolted down. It was a godsend when we found out our buddies pnuematic car tire changer would change our motorcycle tires. Couldn't get rid of the HF tire changer fast enough. |
