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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 09:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So, I was driving in decently-heavy snow for about 90 minutes last night in my Grand Cherokee. Front end lighting is:

1. Factory HID projector-beam headlights (hi/lo)

2. factory projector foglights with retrofit/aftermarket LED bulbs (2500k amber)

3. 11" LED lightbar, mounted under the license plate, wired to high beams, 10 degree pencil beam.

I live in deer country - I like light. I went LED in the fogs because, frankly, they're a pain in the ass to change and want something that'll last forever. When one of the halogens burned out last year, I decided to color-change as well so I ordered LEDs in amber. The light bar is just for....more.

Driving in the snow, though...I discovered their achilles' heel - they generate no heat. Normally a non-issue, but when driving in snow/slush/road spray...they caked with slush and crap and became basically worthless. The factory HID headlights - and their spray-cleaner nozzles - kept the headlights usable, but I could switch the fogs and the bar on and off and there was zero perceptible change to the amount of light going downrange. Got home to the garage, and sure enough - each of the 3 lights had a half-inch of crap piled on the lens.

I like the lighting efficiency of the new LED stuff, and the optics are getting better, but if you're retrofitting a vehicle with all-LED lighting (and you live in snow country)...please, be careful. They WILL ice up on you, and you'll lose all visibility. This is the first time I've run into this because it's the first time I've had the Grand out with this lighting setup, in this weather. My Ram 2500 has LED high beam bulbs which I've been running for a couple years now...but I run DDM HID low beams, which generate enough heat to keep the lenses cleared.

I'm not sure how carmakers are addressing this in their OEM LED lighting...but if you run aftermarket LEDs in your car or truck, please be aware of this winter "feature".
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Aesquire
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Good tip!
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Sifo
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had concerns about this when I put the JW Speaker LED headlights on the Jeep. So far, no issues though. The backside is a huge aluminum heatsink, so they obviously generate heat. Some of that heat must travel to the lens. Some must go into the atmosphere inside the lights and get to the lens that way. They aren't like a sealed beam of the past, so I don't think they have a vacuum in there. I have seen them melting ice when the front of the jeep is an icy mess. I would imagine that there is still a sweat spot in weather that will ice them over. My daily commute is only about 15 minutes, so not normally much of an issue day to day. Most of the time, it's too cold to get the icing going so no problem. I know when I have a longer drive where it's freezing on the lights though, it's going to suck. Overall, they have been a huge upgrade from the OEM reflectors and halogen bulbs (far worse than most vehicle with that set up).

I did have one day where my bus with halogen bulbs manage to freeze over with slush. There was just a small hole in the center that was melting, but that's not where the reflectors pump out the bulk of the light. First and last time I've had that happen with halogens.

I know that Truck Lights has (had?) a LED light with heated lenses. I had read that they may have had a patent on that, keeping other manufactures from doing that too. It might be worth looking into those if you have concerns about winter icing. If I used the Jeep for long expressway trips, I would be more concerned about it. It's a real thing that can be dangerous. I'm not sure it's as common of a problem as some have claimed. Perhaps I've just been lucky in the past 2 winters to not have been in much of the perfect icing conditions. With a slightly warmer winter, it might just suck.
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Teeps
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 11:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fix something; break something...
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Gregtonn
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

...and their spray-cleaner nozzles...

Maybe a little re-engineering to add an auxiliary circuit?

G
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Midknyte
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 12:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Don't feel bad. You'll find articles about municipalities learning this same stupid lesson with stoplights of all things!
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Tootal
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Scotty Kilmer is a Texas mechanic with a YouTube channel on car repair. Just last week he mentioned that if you change out your halogens for LED's it's a great thing if you live in Texas. But in the snow belt the LED's won't melt the snow and ice. I guess he knows what he's talking about!
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Ratbuell
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Seems that's the case! If the HIDs weren't doing their job (admittedly not the best lights, hence the aux additions in the first place), I'd look into adding/extending the spray nozzle system but I still have light...just not my upgrades.

Admittedly it was an extreme case, too. Reports show I drove through nearly a 2"/hour snowfall for about 90 minutes on the highway. Heavy fresh/falling snow, combined with half-melted salt-slush spray from cars and trucks in front of me, made a nice paste that coated the whole front of the Jeep. Years ago (blizzard of '96, actually) I was driving from FL to MD in my '72 Satellite wagon. Had to stop at every second or third underpass to get out and chisel crap off the sealed beams on the wagon. Anything can ice over in the right conditions, but I think the LEDs are far more susceptible. My light bar IS a heat sink...but it didn't transmit any heat into the lens, or at least, not enough.

As I said in my first post, I'm sure (I hope!) the OEMs have devised a solution to this and I guess that would apply to things like the JW Speaker lights where it's an entire housing assembly being used (and approved) for regular DOT primary light source usage. My fogs are simple replacement bulbs, and the bar is not DOT nor is it marketed or endorsed as a primary light source. I can't imagine DOT doesn't take icing into account in their testing and specs...

(Message edited by ratbuell on January 14, 2019)
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86129squids
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 01:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

... glad I'm a Tennessee boy. ; )
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Greg_e
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 01:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've had the halogen fogs ice over before as well.
Currently working on Hella 700FF lights
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Court
Posted on Monday, January 14, 2019 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Very interesting . . . I was just having the LED v. HID conversation with a visiting pal the other night. I am preparing to order a new vehicle and one of the options is full LED lighting. They have a heated windshield and now I am wondering if the lens of the lights should be heated as well.

Valuable safety tip here . . .
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No_rice
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yep, known that for a long time. but i also play in the snow and drive many miles chasing snow storms. the led lights get covered up muuuch easier.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 02:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Similar experience last night in New York . . .


Iced L.E.D. Headlights


Light never got "bad . . but I was also driving 20mph on ice.

I am preparing to order a new car and was planning on order the $1,730 LED headlight option . . . I'm rethinking that absent some way of dealing with this.
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86129squids
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 02:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"I'm rethinking that absent some way of dealing with this."

The LED's could be engineered with a microfilament heating element in/on the glass, just like a rear window.
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Gregtonn
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 03:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The tech is out there.
Adapting it to the hundreds of different headlight configurations...??

https://www.jwspeaker.com/smartheat-heated-led-lig hts/

G
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 05:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

WOW. . . those are quite amazing . . . I am really digging these.

https://www.jwspeaker.com/products/led-high-speed- snow-plow-headlight-model-9800-hs/

For some reason . . . and I can not recall . . . but I think I remember seeing some brand of car years ago that had something that looked like filament wire in the lens.
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Zacks
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Like this :


lantern
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 06:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Truck-Lite has had heated LEDs for at least a few years that I know of. http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle t/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&productId=51289 They seem to claim to be the first to do it. I recently got an email from Quadratec advertising their house brand of heated LEDs. I read where someone thought theirs were built by JW Speaker, but I don't know that for certain. Seems options are becoming available. At least for those of us with round headlights.
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Zac4mac
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Zack
Isn't that an old acetylene lamp?
Or is it an acetylene lamp housing with LED inside??

Zack
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Shoggin
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I never even heard of JW Speaker until they were a sponsor of the 2014 Petersens Ultimate Adventure. Super cool people and honestly really nice product; )
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Zacks
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2019 - 08:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

It is an old acetylene lamp.
It was a joke to Court's 'years ago' comment.
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Jaimec
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2019 - 07:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Very interesting. I've often wondered about this. So far, no REAL snow here on Long Island (NY) but it is something I'll have to keep in mind since my new Subaru Legacy is equipped with LED lights.

But I confess the first thing I noticed when I drove it at night was just how much better they are than my old Subaru's halogens were at lighting up the road. Even better, they're linked to the steering so the lights will lead around the curves too.
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